1 10 3 https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/46614/archive/files/b93846b2f00e591b925156b2f6e28a45.mp3?Expires=1792627200&Signature=YHKB5ErrsTMFRjzUidUVzVahTrmN97xCLAaiODbBq7uVPc5qD4ocVDUXUPU3ZDODUjD1EuvbUtZjStpkXQvMyc66FuEAMqS25L8xPXPh9xeAreQ8qQIUMhDyUOuvz-XsgRc95L1QI-0khpP0%7Eo4pklTeVEHuJIunAjy9EdfMmlAkaq8MFDu6Mr9JHMgEVICSVnRjShq2ONtxYcoekIXNZfDcfS0X1hdx7jN0kekISVPgND%7EHsSdXvVsWrQ%7EUiahqHhQBfx7zYmf9ypejxYSLrMGXRqP2F0yBV3-2NzcjdYzOFSvc8BCRgwmsu%7EV%7Ej85cuHYA48e7GeZzr%7ELlRjZvLw__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 4e33dfc5733e86eeb61d2350b3d9e3c9 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Carl Anderson audio https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/46614/archive/files/b72c92b25f8a75288dca95082022fdec.pdf?Expires=1792627200&Signature=v58ZzsWpHbnu98XAZ8pg7%7Ety7FVLFvdDJAnhypWYIYaGaHBn3WHHv05TYmbuGIIYn9hP%7E%7EOD-s9CSvRmRxyi9jPfNXgqorkLgrLrNCzngu1JK5tWixW-ubNL3V5Ac8Tf-xNZ9TDrfJ-teuOJzaKXoUSySOgD-X-Xhb1Mfk42ua0kZt%7EIZ%7E9BKqnpFzfRO5rCXKSgYFoktz91lxbnMsd6TvJQDotKdHBNkfq-f7oMqBfrJI8k97EHkQ-B4S3a-pySU0zuMLh7mgFI3sMiwkGGChp%7E5P4ixY-sSxynFsv0wdSimydtNrn9d%7EeUiiS5ocsd0aXO2twENX4D4SDHnfnhnw__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 5efaf214ad91e7fa2050cf0f90143296 PDF Text Text Kim: Okay and today is February 20, 2015 and I’m Kim Morey with Historic Rapid City and uh Rapid City Library Oral History Program. I’m visiting with Carl Anderson. So, tell us a little. Carl: I think I got involved in the Oral History program a little bit, a year or two ago,and it didn’t seem like it would fit in my situation too good then. I was uh just a young kid when I went in the Army. Just 19 or 18. And at that time the war was nearly over, and all of us kids that were close to 19 wanted to get in. Get enlisted before *inaudible mumbling* Well, I tried to enlist and they said nah, you’re too close to getting drafted you can’t enlist. Uh, it was an interesting part of my life. I was in the Army for two years and most of it in Japan. I liked Japan, the Japanese people were very kind and gracious to us. They liked the American soldiers, the ones I was around anyhow. And it was just a good duty, and it really felt like we were doing something for the good of humanity We did back a big standing, although the war was technically over. There was a spot that of us that hadn’t ever given in yet, *inaudible mumbling* there was the big standing. And, and it was interesting. Kim: When did you make that landing? Do you remember? What was the date? Carl: September…. 1945, just a few days before my 16th birthday. Kim: 16th? Carl: Yea, or 19th birthday. Kim: 19th Birthday. Both: *chuckling* Carl: I was real serious about my Army duty. I felt like the United States had been really good to me and I should return it if I could. And my dad fought that way for years for his freedom and came to the United States when he was 40 years old, with his family and uh they were good to him too. He learned a trade, he learned a… I still can remember when I came back from the Army and my dad my dad he said well, they called me bud. Bud, there’s two things you can do. You can go back in and get an education or you can stay in and uh get more education. Soldiers being an education, and carpentry from him because I could see that he was a really good carpenter. And I think if I’m going to be a carpenter, I want to be a really good one. And it turned out I was a pretty good carpenter. I built some of the nicer houses, especially in Belle Fourche. My dad and I built the Bandshell in Belle Fourche that some of the other carpenters said ah, you can’t build anything like that. And I always joke well my dad and I, we just didn’t know you couldn’t build it, so we went ahead and built it. And it’s still standing! �Kim: What was it that you built again? Carl: A Bandshell Kim: Oh yea. Carl: It was like a… Kim: Right. Is that Bandshell, you say that Bandshell still there in Belle Fourche? Carl: Yea, I think it is. It’s the …. Kim: Yea, I’m familiar with that then Carl: *mumbles* Kim: Yea, how long ago did you build then then? Right shortly after the war then did you? Carl: It was just a little bit before the war, I remember he called me back to work for him to help him with that Bandshell. And I’d never built anything completely round before. He said you gotta make the... Right after I guess you’d call make it a quarter circle. And a lot of attention back then, people drive by and they think that “you can’t do that, you can’t do that.” HA! And my dad would say “sure you can” and we did. You know nice bandshell, and like I said it’s still,it’s still standing. And then I built a lot of houses. While I was still working for my dad. We built quite a few of the Bentonite Plants that were just starting up around Belle Fourche. Kim: That’s a big project. Carl: That was interesting. And he had, I don’t know how you’d say it, but when he come from Sweden he had got quite an education in millwright work. And he need that because when the bentonite came into the fields they make a powder out of it. And it was like a flour and I know they told him it was turned into a lot of plants. It was right in…..inaudible mumbling…. I was pretty proud of my old man. Kim: Yea Carl: I never did learn any of that, but it was good. Kim: Did you grow up in Belle Fourche? Carl: Yes. Graduated from high school there. Entered the army there. �Kim: And um, you were in Japan for two years then? Carl: One year. Kim: One year. And the army for two? Carl: Yea, actually I was in the army for about 3 years. I uh, started a year just kinda hopping around from one army base to another it seemed like. I enjoyed the time I spent in the army and the things I learned there. You learn all types trades that you don’t get in the civilian life. I still uh, appreciate it, all the things he taught me ya know. And I can’t, I still wonder how did he learn all those things? He said when he came to the United States, they uh got a homestead up in the Bare Leg Mountains, then they got a carpenter out of Spearfish. I don’t know his name, I could find out, o come out and build a house for them. He spent most of his summer working for that carpenter, learning how to do all kinds of things.That a lot of carpenters didn’t ever learn. And he must been a fast learner. He shared a lot of stuff, but there was a lot of stuff I never learned.. It was a summer. Well, he was patient with me and kind. And never got too grumpy with me. We just got along good. Kim: And that was your life’s work? Being a carpenter then? Carl: Yea. Kim: You built a lot of houses then you said? Carl: Yea, up in my room here I got a picture of 46 houses that I built. And that was after he passed away. Kim: Did you build those all in or around Belle Fourche? Carl: In or around, yea.*Inaudible mumbling* Kim: Would it be possible for me to get um, make a copy of that picture so I can put that with this story? Carl: Sure. It’s just a set of photographs. After we’ve been doing this quite a while now, I said we’ve got to get a photograph of that. One Saturday morning, we went up and down every street. I couldn’t even remember most of them I did. We took pictures, then we compiled them. They’re sitting in my room now. They were mostly *inaudible* houses. A real estate agent told me one time it’s easier for us to sell houses you built because as soon as we say they were built by Anderson Homes they are people are happy to buy them because they know they are worth it. Kim: I’m sure that makes you feel good. �Carl: It does. One thing that was interesting, I got a phone call one night. It was a lawyer in Belle Fourche. He said he was a lawyer here and he said there’s a lawyer in San Diego that wants to talk to you. So I set up an appointment. He said I want to build a really nice house out in Sand Creek, which is a resort area. Well, we’ll meet with him, see if we can build it for him. And I met with him two or three times. He finally he decided I was the carpenter he wanted to build his house. It was 19.. I forgot the year, it was after the war was over… He had an architect draw up plans. I had never worked with an architect. And that time an architect just went over, seeing what it’s all about. It wasn’t one of the more...times in my life, but we made it. And the house is still standing there in Sand Creek. By the time I got everything done and creating and uh everything there was over a million dollars. *inaudible mumbling* I didn’t make a whole lot of money on it, but I made a lot of first deeds. And uh, it was fun building that because I knew that he knew the cost of materials and things into it and it was going to be a high priced house. I told him, congrats on a high priced, quality house. And when I first started, we were just building what you called cracker boxes and everyone in Belle Fourche was cuz there was such shortage of housing, and they all wanted to get in on it. And I know, I think my dad told me, just wait a while and go slow and you’ll come out better than anything. For sure, he was sure right. Because I got some really nice houses and uh... Kim: You designed the house too then? Did you draw the layout of the house too then? Did you design it? Carl: Somewhat. He got it planned from his architect and then he let him go. He said, we’ll sit down and draw it out the way I want it. And so, we spent a couple evenings sitting at my kitchen table. I had a drafting board and we that stuff. Drawing it the way he wanted it. And I had taken an architectural drawing course in high school. Which really helped me out on that. It was one of the most interesting experience I guess in my life probably. This architect, or guy I was building it for, as we got closer to completion he would fly out, I guess maybe every week. And we’d have a big and he’d go over everything I was doing, and if there was something he didn’t like the way I was doing, he’d come to me and we’d find a different way. But most of the time it was the way I was doin’ it. It was fun. Kim: Did you do the framing and finish carpentry? Carl: Yes. The finish carpentry I had an old Norwegian that worked for me for 20 years, and he was a alcoholic. And I had put him up with him, and pulled him out of messes all through that 20 years. And he decided about that time that wanted to straighten out. And he came to me and he says “Bud I don’t wanna drink anymore, and if you’ll help me, I’ll just do anything you want me to in the work.” I said Joe, that you got a job for me as long as I got work. And it turned out that way. He quit drinking, and we got we were always friends. We got to be best friends, and he’s doing wonderful uh hard benchwork. And uh, it was quite a time in my life, cuz I knew that… �Well a sample, one day we were puttin’ across a shimmy guards in for an open ceiling. And I went off to do something, and I heard a noise. And I heard something crash boom bang, and I hurried down. There he was laying down in the basement floor. He’d fallen outta the roof value and fallen through the rafters and through the roof area and through the ceiling space and through the floor space clear to the concrete basement floor. I thought oh he’s done for. I run down the basement and he’s puffin’ away breathing. I said Joe are you alright? He said yea get me up outta here. He said Then he started working for me on that same job. This architect would come look it over once in a while and he was kinda keeping up with it. About time he finished it he said “Carl, that’s some of the best finish work I’ve ever seen.” And I was smart enough to let Joe do the finish work. *chuckling* I knew he could do better than I did. I got some stuff stacked in there too… I got a picture of it in my pictures. The folks, it was just, ordinary run of the mill houses. I mean *inaudible* I don’t know what the hell that is. Kim: Well there’s some bugs and creatures put in that. Carl: Anyway, he would, Sand Creek was 20 miles out of Spearfish and it was 10 miles out of Belle Fourche. And we both had to leave about 8 o’clock in the morning and we would always be there way past dark.There were two of us, and never knew what we were gonna do that day. I hardly ever had more than one work...working for me. I was gonna put on an extra college or high school kid when we were roofing or doing something we could use more help. But uh, you know *inaudible* If I was done for a little while, he could really plan. *inaudible* How it works together, and I got what we needed. We figure this is as good as anything. *inaudible mumbling* Kim: Do you have a picture of that house at Sand Creek then? That one of em? Carl: *inaudible mumbling* Just this uh the outside of the house. I kept thinking I’d go back and get more pictures, but the pictures just don’t do it justice. I’ll probably go one of these days. If you want one, I’ll do it sooner. Kim: I think that would be a good one to put with the story is a picture of that, yea. Carl: I began teaching myself more each day about finish work because I knew Joe was going to be quittin’ me and I wanted to be able to do what he’d done. And he did quit right after that. Course, not long after that he died, and I just couldn’t seem to remember the swing of it after he quit me. I thought I knew how to do this, I just never *inaudible mumbling* Kim: When did you quit building or retire form building houses? Carl: Two years ago, I think. It was getting really slow in Belle Fourche and a lot of places. So, my wife had found a pretty good job in Rapid City. She taught business, English, things like that. She said let’s just move to Rapid. I’ll get on that Business English and you can go ahead and do what you feel like. *inaudible mumbling* and that was really good, worked good for me. She made me happy that way too. The little things… *inaudible mumbling* �Kim: Let me ask you a little bit more about your time in the army. Were you um, an Infantry man? Or did you have a? Carl: Infantry. Kim: Yea Carl: After I graduated from the infantry, I was promoted into uh I dunno whatcha call it where the jobs were really nice. I was promoted up to then. I was Chief Supply Officer’s personal driver. I just drove the chief all day long. Kim: You say all the civilians in Japan even that soon after the war they were quite welcoming to the American soldiers then? Carl: The part I was in then, yes. Kim: What part was that? Carl: It was clear down in Southern Hanko. We were told they weren’t greeted too kindly when the Russians came in. They were happy to see Americans come in, so we were instructed to be nice to them. And that wasn’t hard to to do because they were nice and friendly people. Couldn’t understand them. We could most of us a little bit. Excuse me. Driving the Jeep was my favorite thing I wanted to do. Kim: Did you see a lot of the country or was it a lot of short trips? Carl: We saw a lot of the northern part of Hanko there. As we, when we first got there, they drew our maps and discover discovered the ammunition dump. And then we’d go driving around the mountains and find the ammunition ammunition dumps and put them on the map. Then the guys would go out and destroy them. *inaudible mumbling* And that was interesting too. When I got caught up we started the back roads, but I picked my *inaudible mumbling* I could do that more and made major chief *inaudible mumbling* and handed me the keys and asked me where I was going. And I think it was a good job. I could have stretched it out. Uh funny it didn’t start with the GI’s saying uh, *inaudible mumbling* That made it easy for me. We were there quite a while. And uh it was just very interesting. Kim: Anything else that comes to mind. Carl: Had an interesting trip overseas. We went on a *inaudible mumbling* truce. We went from Seattle. Kim: I tell everybody that I visit with that um if you want or you think of other things after we after we finish you can contact us and we can set-up again. It’s real easy to do. Um... �Carl: I probably will. It’s been, it’s been quite a while since I came back from there. Kim: Yea. Carl: And the first months I was back, I was telling everybody I’d see what it was like. And it was interesting there and uh, right after *Inaudible mumbling* the ammunition dumps there was a big garbage they had. And that was what we were doing. Really getting those out of access. And GI’s and be able to get em out of there. *inaudible mumbling* Major Byron and it was after the war and a good guy. But uh, he would just make you want to tell him all you could about the situation. I think it’d be interesting. One afternoon he asked me if I could get the Jeep and come over to his house about 6 o’clock. I said sure, he signed the paper. So I did. He directed me to go out on this certain road out of town and I’d been out there before and didn’t know what it was. He directed me into a certain neighborhood. He looked at a house, and he stopped it. He said now you see if you can figure out what kind of business this guy is in. Well only thing I could see is there were a lot of rice crops. And I said they’re selling the rice. He said you’re probably right, he’s a rice farmer just making rice wine out of it. Distilling it and selling it to United States as a liquor. And he said their distillery and all the place out there would peak my interest. And at that time, it was legal too. For him, I don’t know about me. I didn’t ask him. *chuckles* But uh, it was interesting too. Just as an aside, on the way back down, we crossed a streetcar track. Some clang clang clang. Must be a blowout. Stopped and looked. One tire was completely gone. Just all chewed up. And I thought well the tire is gone. He said ah don’t worry about it, I’ll buy it. What’d you hit? We walked out a ways, and we ran over a tree track. And it just eat through the tire. *inaudible mumbling* Point of interest, I guess was if you early tire. They expected you to go out someplace and find a replacement. Didn’t have to be in new shape anything, but replace the tire. And I went up to this kind of like a filling station I guess. They had a bunch of tires stacked out front. I found one that was the right size and looked pretty good still. Took it out to put it on the Jeep, it worked! I didn’t buy a tire. *inaudible mumbling* Them were the days…. Kim: Well Theresa will be able to get in touch with me if you have some more memories that you would like to talk about. And uh, we can start again. Carl: I don’t want to lose things…. They wouldn’t allow us to carry weapons when we were going back in the boondocks. And one day we were going up in a highly wooded mountain area. And came around the corner, blind corner, and there was a little *inaudible* carrying a rifle. And I stopped us and said should go on *inaudible mumbling* Oh, I don’t know, let’s go on and see what he does. And we went on and passed him and he was carrying his rifle right along. And we got up close we could see a sling on his arm said official hunter. �Kim: *laugh* Carl: *laugh* And we were in the mountains like that, and you kind of wonder... Kim: Yea. Carl: He actually gave me permission to carry a rifle after that. And anyway…. Kim: Was the part of Japan you were driving in, had they been had they suffered a lot of damage during the war or or or were you in a part of Japan not bombed a lot or? Carl: It was bombed. Not as much as some places. But you know, like I told other people, the blocks were divided off. There was one block that seemed like it was all residential houses, and they were all in good shape. The people were in good shape. But And then the next block, they were in pretty good shape. We figured they just bombed the heck out of it. *inaudible mumbling* That’s behind you basically. While we were there, wasn’t quite that big, but it was in a corridor. Same places. *inaudible mumbling* We went to Denver to figure out the yard house. Kim: Well thank you. Carl: It’s been interesting. Kim: Yes. Carl: I’ve had a lot of memories Kim: Good. And I hope good memories. Carl: Yea, it really was good. Because we weren’t fighting for one thing. I can’t imagine life with people shooting at us all through that. If they’d been… *inaudible fadeout* � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Carl Anderson transcript Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interviews Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Rapid City Public Library Description An account of the resource Oral Histories recorded for the Rapid City Oral History Project by Rapid City Public Library Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Carl Anderson Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Kim Morey Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 33:25 Location The location of the interview Rapid City Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview: Carl Anderson Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource February 20, 2015 Description An account of the resource Carl Anderson talks to interviewer Kim Morey about his career in construction, building houses and more in and around Belle Fourche, SD. During World War II, Mr. Anderson served in the US Army in Japan, and recounts parts of that experience. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context https://catalog.rapidcitylibrary.org/cgi-bin/koha/opac-detail.pl?biblionumber=289701 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Rapid City Oral History Project Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Rapid City Public Library Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Rapid City Public Library Historic Rapid City Rapid City Library Foundation Subject The topic of the resource Anderson Homes, Belle Fourche, carpentry, construction, Japan, Sand Creek, South Dakota, United States Army, World War II Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Belle Fourche (S.D.), South Dakota, Japan Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource signed release to Rapid City Oral History Project on file. Format The file format, physical medium, or dimensions of the resource .mp3 Anderson Homes Belle Fourche Carpentry Construction Japan Sand Creek South Dakota United States Army World War II https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/46614/archive/files/c26c92901f62fad5ef6c383b52d64431.mp3?Expires=1792627200&Signature=G%7EEgt5wO%7EItFlnH4E1F%7E3sn7K3kCloR2YKJ9Gn4vQuxDt-M4JB2favmkIk9siIgmTdp20LXMs3g4hW6%7EovmWGMxXcsP4deJ7DyzjSkYA-O5K7zas4kS%7E5R0szpS6RVKRyi9vnImZjO2fisHy6HvPSkLeOPE6hqFiYfkQEUfqYpEti-XsG4a2grdUYohP-A881r0envxF872CLXfutRsJioEDVBKGFIdPc8Bqw86nMl1jRiWIP4FennghTaKe1gwOvbI2D9qmmWuxj4Ul7yfB6ceA6p5ncBT2ISuc9uqyV4DiO9BPQgQVNh1ZuG-joRAEqdvDRqoIRYn1Am2LIohTlg__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 5b2edb08d5651ad8b96fd0da77bd88e5 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Groethe Family audio pt. 1 https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/46614/archive/files/7211f008aaea600cdbd028fbd95f920c.mp3?Expires=1792627200&Signature=XlL-tH7zIJsuvEDyGQuSaxLOsLY%7Ebav-W96H6O%7EMec2PJB8xhYfVRdnn8L-3%7ETvvIEv1K08GHCEhDGFwjD16K1jXH-L8chInhP23QsU3w4wZpmnQKk-DwahcIp5XkDMlDOT7bNEejok%7E70LnjSJBDLFxeMlGU7y3-v0gb60SLMgRSf7w6n4VFOhpb0PGCiiYEcS0EL%7E-Az-85U4-n%7EmtR1ox53os1W9Xy1fs76lzwYmSNJFdJpmH2dZ86BQhW%7E6QDPeEmjy0%7EFqnJFiphgdwKJI-SFYAbIqPayALuYpDyjJ9aBjBW3oQHMuO-BHsrrsrFJPYK%7EjoP0ZMTbcXcKbwZA__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM bd61df8cdb9e68156786dbee16915258 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Groethe Family audio pt. 2 https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/46614/archive/files/f62baadf72875d03725613a401a2d46c.pdf?Expires=1792627200&Signature=sfEtKaxC4MWpK7ae9uEL12D3HaGC7C-skAdD6msCNrw2t%7EI9W46KxYMATIAn3RzIXGBg2uc2G14Q2i4NqPWtodsWD3SEVNmRB1lsOZu7pXSQSZh5MiallO7EcGzJLskUTP671iKekELTPVCd3WZQ53lDcVP9vFEwIDnjdDKhI-lmpF0SSUnX75OTFQnezwjMK9MBCoudB8U4xjpNXFVwv1ldG0vBCjMIEdHODleKYWfN1j%7Ej2Zw83vyS7gg3zDVjibgKIDSaeIgDvoN52fTwa9kVo%7EnP51slAytQNYlHbtdrP3ypncdNwW34nGEtubSHOzbd8A5gfdmXkv551-KlEA__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM a7ac21d2d2c4b102edacc4738edad955 PDF Text Text **Disclaimer: Not all voices are identified and family names are difficult to hear/spell. Groethe Family Part 1 Bev Pechan: My name is Bev Pechan and I am conducting the interview today. It's July 16th 2014. This is an oral history project for the Rapid City Public Library. And I am sitting with members of the Groethe family. And we have Gene Tholand ?, Rob Groethe, Dorothy Miller, Gene Biggins and Bill Groethe. And I am going to be asking some questions and I also have some cards here with different things here that Gene Biggins gave me that I am going to refer to that so when I talk to you if I am asking one particular person a question and if you have thoughts on it and yours are a little different then I would like you to jump in and explain where you are standing and where you are coming from so we kind of get the whole idea. And it started originally just before we started the interview with on Genes note card she has that she was the first baby born in St. Joseph’s hospital and there seems to be a little controversy on that so Gene would you explain what you have to say about it. Gene Tholand: This is Gene. I am 86 years old. I have been saying for many, many years my one claim to fame is I was the first baby in St. John's Hospital but I found out today that I am not even second. My sister Jo was the first baby. Bev: Ok Jo let's hear your rebuttal. Jo: This is Jo. I wasn't the first baby born in the hospital. I was the first baby from my mother’s birth hips to my mother’s birthing process. First of her babies to be born in a hospital. Bev: Ok and Bill you were just telling me before we started that the children in your family, your siblings were all named after friends of your father more or less. Do you want to talk about that a little bit? Bill: This is Bill. It is knowing that my Dad is friends was friends of many of the professors at the Mines and local Doctors and different people my brother Robert named Robert Jackson after Dr. Jackson. And Gene just told me Marion Wilson was Wilson was for the president. That we have John Bowling Withers. His middle name is a book salesman friend of my Dads. My Dad sold books before he came to Rapid City after he graduated from high school, college I mean and let’s see we have someone else, David Rowe who is after Professor Rowe and we have a brother we lost to pneumonia and his name was Homer Surbeck Groethe. So Dad had a penchant for naming his boys and girls after friends of his. Is that correct? Gene: No. This is Gene. Homer was Home Perrin named after Homer Surbeck. Bill: Oh was Homer Perrin. Gene: P E R R I N Perrin Bill: Good for you Gene. That's good. �Bev: Ok and tell me evidently Dr. Jackson was a big part of your growing up. Anybody want to talk on that a little bit on Dr. Jackson. Rob you are his namesake. Rob: I am not hearing a word anybody says. ______: We're talking about Dr. Jackson Rob: You want me to talk about him? I can't remember. ______: He delivered a lot of us. Dr. Jackson. Bill: Dr. Jackson this is bill Dr. Jackson donated the land for Canyon Lake. He also the Jackson Blvd and that big addition of Strathaven that I live in and Southwest Rapid was all developed by the Jackson brothers. Two Scotsman and that’s why the names have Scottish names. Lanark and Stirling and so on. And Jackson was a local Dr. I have a close relationship with him because of my nose. Because believe it or not he put my nose back together after it was cut off and didn't have a stitch in it and you can't see the scar so I love the guy even though he is long gone. Bev: Do you want to explain how that happened? Bill: I fell when I was two years old and cut the bottom half of my nose off on a piece of wood. And he didn't make a stitch. He bolted it back and put it together and I don't have a scar. It was completely severed. _______: I would like to add to that. I didn't as Rob know him either except when I fell at the old Lincoln school and had to go to him in the middle of the day. I loved going to him. It was so fun to go to his office. But he left shale in my scar and I have a blue scar. So he made some mistakes. Bill: Oh he did. Good. Well we are all human after all. _________: I am glad he fixed your nose. Bev: Ok on the next card and these are very helpful by the way. Warren Lamb lumber. Gene was it you that worked there? Or who worked there? Rob _____: Rob and Warren Lamb Lumber. Can you talk about your work there? Rob: I didn't work there very long. Pay was about 30 cents an hour. I was there a short time got a job with Paul Bellamy. Paul Belamy got a big loan from the US government for the first low income housing in a small town in the United States. He built the Hillcrest. _____ and some of the others as Warren Lamb took a job with him. Our chief Tenant was Mr. Forkner.? We dug all the ditches and put in all the sewers. Poured all the concrete. 50 cents an hour. And that was big, big money so I stayed there until hell I was in the service and they called us in before the war. And when I came back from the war one of the first jobs I ever had was working for Owen Mann construction the Hillcrest project had been imbedded with a lot of water and shale and it slid into �the old school down toward the old school off of South Street. Owen Mann had the job. Rob Olen was the shovel operator. We had half a dozen small Ford trucks and we worked only at night. We'd load the trucks and fill the lake at Baken Park where Baken Park is now used to be a lake. We filled the lake with those trucks to build an area that later was built into Baken Park. They had to quit. They hit a pocket of water. Just like hitting a 20 inch main. Like to wash out_____that old church on the corner of 5th and Cross Street. That old Catholic church. It washed up all the way down there. But that was one of the better jobs I had before the war. After the war, we got paid a little better for that. Then I went to work for Pete Lien. I worked ____________ for 26 years. Over to Summit for about 9 years. Then got too old for anybody to talk to me so I quit and stayed home. Bev: Now one of these cards mentions that Pete Lien died in Mexico. Rob: I don't hear well. ________: Pete Lien died in Mexico. Rob: That's too bad. He had a place in Mexico and it. He had lent a guy money to ____ and the guy never paid him back but he went to Mexico and made it big. Gave Pete a real nice place on the Gulf of California. And Pete was down there visiting when he had a stroke/heart attack and died. Quite a few years ago. His son Bruce _____ kind of hard, kind of easy to get into Mexico but sometimes it’s hard to get out. Bev: Yes, with a dead body. And how old are you Rob? Rob: 92 Bev: 92 and let's see. Who was paid to clean the windshields on the cars on Main Street? ______: It's about when you cleaned windshields on Main Street of tourist cars or all cars. Rob: Oh I worked for Frank Ewing. Frank Ewing had a filling station on the corner of 8th and Main St on the northeast corner. I can't remember I think I must have been 13-14 years old. I would take a shammy, sponge and a bucket of water and clean the windshield of any vehicle that didn't have a Pennington County license. Even if the Harney Hotel or Alex Hotel and then put a card in the windshield telling them to get their service and spend their money with Frank Ewing at this filling station. I think he paid me giving me a ride in his Stanley Steamer. I can't remember getting paid. Bev: Do you remember the years that you did that? _________: He said he was 13. He was born in '22. Rob: I know that because when I was a little older I ran an ice cream stand for the Margolis down by the old Methodist church and then downtown. Yeah there is a lot of work in town yet today. If you know how to work. �Bev: Well you had to be creative that's for sure. Rapid City Journal, selling papers? Rob: Did you sell papers? Oh sure we all sold papers. Sold papers 3 cents, sold them for a nickel or more. Had your own area. Didn't want any other kid in there. Bev: Kind of like the mob. Bill: This is Bill and I want to add that we sold the Omaha World Herald. We met the train, the Chicago Northwestern train when it came in with the Omaha paper and we sold that on the street. We had to pay for papers and sell them. And I think we made a penny a paper. I can't really remember that exact. I know that it wasn't a lot of money. But a penny was a lot of money. We didn't get many. 14:55 Bev: But you had your own districts then and what about if you sold papers for the Journal and you bought them for 3 cents and sold them for a nickel. Did the journal have their own newsboys out on the corners too? Bill: I don't remember that at all. Rob is talking is talking about selling the Journal and I remember mostly that I met a train and got papers and sold them and it was the Omaha World Herald. ______: Where did you get the papers you sold for the Rapid City Journal? From the Journal for 3 cents each? Ron: Maybe it was a nickel I don't know. Bill: No, you paid 4 cents and we sold them for a nickel or more. If you're lucky. ____: Might been good to get a dime. Bev: Ok St. Paul Pioneer Press? �____: Yeah Sunday paper we used to deliver that. All of us. On Sundays. Or we put in the box with... back then with no natural gas in Rapid City or out this way. No electricity yet. Everybody had a wood furnace if they were lucky. Wood or coal. And the kindling for the coal ____________ warm________. You buy a load of kindling and they'd load it on another thing that was a horse drawn two wheeled cart. Bring it up to your house. We'd still have a place to put our kindling down from outside. One of us would get in the basement. The load would come they'd take the _____ out and dump the trailer and one kid would hand it to the other and stack it up in the basement to build the fire. But I can remember doing that at Haxbys, Mrs. Haxby's house and Inman? house over on the Blvd. And at our house. Bev: Ok and I have a card here that mentions youth training camp. Youth training camps. _____: When you went to North Dakota for training how old were you then? _____: Oh that was. The war was about to start or had already started in Germany. If you remember Germany had their youth core. So Franklin Roosevelt he put together a Citizens Military Training core. CMTC. You had to be 18 years old. You didn't get paid but you went for a month each summer. And were trained by 6 infantry out of Stelling MN. Lived just out of Mandan ND. Ft. Lincoln. Got paid mileage. If I remember right I think I got going and coming if I got paid. Not like McDonalds. You don't get paid before you get it. You had to do the work. You got back home. You got a 19:22 a check for about 67.00. Just like winning the lotto. But I went two years to that before I went in the service. Bev: I got to get to the girls here pretty quick but we're getting to WWII now so I need to ... Were you in WWII now actively? Rob? I know Bill was. I am going to get to you next. ___: ___ service until got out in 45 then out a couple years then went back in the guards and got called back in the Korean war was in again then stayed in the guards so I retired then. Bev: How many years of military service do you have do you think? _____: 26 But I get some government money. �_____: Didn't you retire Colonel in charge of the whole group here. _____: No, hell no. Lots of rank. Lots of different rank. Rank, that's a funny word. It says a lot of things. Your rank. Bev: Before I get to the ladies here, Bill tell us about your WWII experiences. I know you did a lot. Bill: Well I didn't do much at all. Take pictures you know but I was in from March of to Dec. of 45. Half in the United States half in Italy. Always in photo. So that was my work. Always in photo long before I went in. I was 19 almost 20 when I went in and I was 22 when I got out. But the military work I did was all 2nd world war. It was all connected with photography. Some flying with big cameras. Mostly installation of cameras in airplanes and setting of intervalometers and control mechanisms so that the pilot would be able to get the photographs at a certain level and groundspeed. That was the main job that I did in Italy. Yeah cause we didn't get to fly in Italy cause we were just the lab and the maintenance people for the cameras and transferred the information to the bomber field that was next door to us. Cause the airplane was a P-38 there was only one man in it. He operated 7 cameras. But prior to that of course I grew up in a photographic situations at Bell Studio since I was 12. And I was lucky there because I learned a trade. And that's what I did after age 15 I actually got paid. I did other things to make a little money when I was 13 or 14. After I sold papers. I was a lifeguard for a while and made a little money. But after 15 I worked continuously and I haven't had any paycheck from anything except Bell Studio and my own business in all my life. Bev: And you started your photo career sort of as an apprentice to Bert Bell when Mt Rushmore was being constructed. Just talk a little bit about that. Bill: Yes I was very lucky that I got to go with them when I was 13 or years old to help carry the cameras and tripods and be able to go up in the cable car to experience a lot of things that the kids didn't get to go like I did. I was very lucky. So I just learned a lot. We ran ______ when I was 15 and 16 and for the tourists. All manual work of course. We did lots of film by hand. But we didn't have digital with millions of pictures and only one or two good ones. So you know it was good it was fun it was what I did and it’s what I still do. �Jo: I would like to interject. This is Jo. One of my earliest memories is standing by my Dad at Mt. Rushmore. And watching my brother Bill get in a great big brown green bucket and go up to those faces and I was so frightened but I guess he wasn't. And my story that I have about that. Of course I make up a lot of things. But was that the Bell Studio people, the personnel there were afraid they wouldn't go but my brother went and he got some good pictures of the faces. When they were being built and another memory of when we were walking on Sundays we would go up there and see Gutzon Borglum in his knickers. Bill: Street shoes. Stand on the edge in street shoes smoking a cigarette. I got pictures of that would just blow your mind. Jo: And he never fell off that I am aware of. Bev: I'm going to get to that part here in just a little while. I want to ask the sisters. Tell me what it was like for you growing up in Rapid City and the things that you did and the brothers were very industrious and did you have some competition with them or how was your growing up years because there were a lot of children in your family. Who wants to start with that? Gene: We went to Wilson School. I'm Gene age 86. Part of it we went to other schools but when we went to Wilson school we went home for lunch. We had an hour off and our Mom either we ate potato soup, tomato soup, fried egg sandwiches. We walked back to Wilson School. It was a mile. We walked there in the morning. Walked home for lunch, walked back, Walked home after school. I just wanted to mention that. Somebody Jo, Dorothy, think of something. __________: Well I just sat around and soaked up all the knowledge of the other people. Bev: She's the baby of the family ok and how old are you dear? _______: _______ but Washington school we or I did every morning I would walk to school be on time and they had classes. Miss Hinky was our teacher and my brother David was one year older than I am and we were in the same class. (She's 87) He was a half a semester ahead of me. Every morning I would get there and Miss Hinky would say if you can get here on time then why don't you get him over here. He'd walk in about half an hour late every morning and she'd say Hi David. Look it's Dave. I'd just cringe. It's too bad he isn't here. He was a little devil wasn't he? �Everyone in Rapid City knew his name. Went to the movie every afternoon at the Elks Theatre when he was 4. Bev: What did you have for hobbies or what did you do summer vacations and things like that? Dorothy: Went swimming at Canyon Lake. We hitchhiked out there to Canyon Lake and stayed all day. Took swimming lessons. Diving, I mean my brothers and sisters were good swimmers. And when we came home our mother was out on the front porch and she had made fresh lemonade. She was hosing down the porch on a hot day in her bare feet. It was wonderful. And caramel suckers were only a penny. Bev: Oh my goodness. Ok. _________: We got a penny when we went to Canyon Lake so we could get a caramel sucker. Bev: And where did you get your suckers? ______: At Canyon Lake. They had a store, they had a bath house. ______: That was the only recreation that town provided. Was Canyon Lake. We had a great swimming and diving coach. And a great program for Red Cross rescue training and Carl Lock was the main one we do is head life guard. He is still alive incidentally Carl Lock. He just had his 100th birthday. I talked to him on the phone. He lives in Ft. Worth. _____: I'd like to tell a story about Gene and the lake. They had at the end of the summer they would have an annual race. Since I am a year older than Gene, we would sometimes be in a different category and Juliet Shoemaker always beat me but I come in second and then you would. But this year my memory is so clear. That Gene was going to win the race because Juliet and I moved on to the next tier of swimmers and the woman that was supposed to pick us up didn't come. And we didn't get you there on time to win the race. And I've always been so �disappointed because you were sure to get the prize. One year they had microphones set up when they had the races and they'd call your name. "It's time for your race" And one year our brother David had won the soap box derby in Rapid City and he was racing in Akron Ohio and his car had the Rapid City Journal on it. And so they were broadcasting that race at the swim meet that Sunday. My it was so exciting. But when he won that Soap Box Derby we were just so excited. He built the car himself too. Anyway he got to go all the way to Akron. ____: How old was he? ______: I don't know. He was about this high. ______:Couldn't have been much more than 14 or something ______: Around 14 Bev: Well Bill I remember you said you worked on some Soap Boxes. Bill: No, next time you have something. I am hard of hearing. Have a round table. Put something in the middle. Don't be sitting down there talking. I never hear a word. I haven't heard three words you said. But Jo's got a big mouth so I can hear her. I heard we talking about Canyon Lake and all these things. It was wonderful when Canyon Lake was built, my Dad had been let go in the school system and he worked as a timekeeper when they re-built the road to Mt. Rushmore. He had to be done with horses and _________ no mechanical CATs or scrapers or anything like that. It was a WPA project, it was one of the first projects they ever let go and all the ranchers and farmers around here were broke. They took their horses they built that highway all the way up towards Mt. Rushmore over 8th Street hill. It took them a couple years. It's been re-done time and time again since then. But Dad was the timekeeper on that. He also was the timekeeper on the construction at Canyon Lake itself that we as kids used to swim in the creek out there but you had no lake until they rebuilt that in 1933 or 34. He was a timekeeper there. Now I knew you were talking about things at the lake. I wanted you to know that he helped build that. 35:59 _______: And I wish we had some pictures of you diving. You and Bill. And my brother Bud. �_______: It's like my other brothers. My oldest brother he was ______ during the war by the federal government. He was a station master in Colorado at ___________ and he had to stay there. My brother Bud the next one was ___ his job as metallurgist never got into the service until after the war was just about over then he went into the service. He had a little PT thing for about a year. My other brothers. Did you talk about David? He was in the Navy all during the war. Ok. John in the Navy. Bill of course. I am sorry I didn't get to hear everything. I can't wear my hearing aids. It doesn't work. I gotta be close to watch them talk. I like that round thing. Bill: This is Bill. If you want any pictures of Dad and the crew at Canyon Lake during a period of building Canyon Lake I have those. I have some pictures I was honored to have a copy of. I didn't know how this interview will be used but if it needs to be illustrated at all we probably have some pictures. ________: Yeah you also have some pictures of yourself diving. Bill: Well yeah I have some of several people diving. I don't recall just who they are some of them are made with such a small camera in the early days. Yeah I've got Chief Miller and Duncan that I've got groups of those divers that were really quite good. They went to the state in Sioux Falls many times and often won very well. I didn't go with them only one time because I was working by then. I took off and was a life guard one summer when they did the best. So I dived with them for quite a long time. But Bud and Rob and then Rob’s boys Robert especially I remember Robert Jr. as a great diver. After the war when they first started building some pools and they had a pool right next to Rob’s house almost where Robert could dive in. Years ago yeah. Bev: Now Bill tell us. We talked about this. Different times over the years, the reason your Dad got the job as a timekeeper was because of something that happened before that. Tell us about what happened in your family with your Dad. Bill: Well the sad part of it my Dad was fired as superintendent of schools in 1929. Because the clan was very strong here at that time. Klu Klux Klan. They controlled the school board. They told Dad that he had to fire the Catholic teachers. And he wouldn't do it. Now remember at that time in our lives the Protestant teachers/pastors many of them speaking against the Catholics. And my Dad was a graduate of St. Olaf a great Lutheran School and yet he had the nerve to say �no, that he wouldn't fire good teachers no matter what if they were Catholic or not. And he didn't and so they fired him. And that's the way that was. And he was without work. He was fired in 29. He was a timekeeper on Hwy 16 and on Canyon Lake and for a period of over two years he worked in overalls and he was very good at that as he always was at everything and he ran for County Superintendent 1932. And was elected. He held that office almost continuously until he died with the exception of I believe one term as county auditor because at that time the County superintendent was a political office and later after he was an auditor for one term it was not a political appointment anymore or political office so he ran and held that post until the first of June 1969 and he died 6 weeks later. As I recall that’s the way it was. Is that right? Bev: Ok and now I would like anybody that wants to share some memories... I remember you telling me what a terribly rough time that was for your family financially and during the depression years you know food and whoever would like to talk about that I would like to talk about that I would like to hear that. _____: Gene I'm sure would. _______: Gene remembers living in two cabins in north rapid. Our family we couldn't find housing easily with I was the 10th child so anyway we lived in cabins and I can remember just a table and a bed in the cabin. Do you remember the cabin? ____: Oh yeah up on East North St. It's still there Yeah and the name escapes me but I know the name of the people that own that cabin camp. But for several years we moved from one location. We were on 4th street I recall. We were on Quincy Street. We were on East Blvd North or whatever they called it and finally at 12th and South but moved on and on. I recall another thing. I believe Dad was offered another job at Plankinton. But he was not able to get that. They tried to break up our family. I recalled many times the ranchers bringing in half a hog or a bushel of tomatoes or things and that was always appreciated and helped us get through. �Bev: And there were how many siblings at that time? Well all of those that reached maturity. I think there 11 weren't there. Dorothy was born in 31. Yeah you were born in 31. Bev: And I think you said something to me once about your mother tried selling things door to door. Well she did well to be able to go out. She was a great lady that went out and sold door to door silk underwear to the very wives of the people that fired her husband. Four of them husbands. Yeah four of them. Don't kid yourself. There was one lady. I will tell you. Gene: This is Gene. It was the C and D Company she sold for. I still have a little hot pad. From Michigan Probably but this is what happened many times. You took an order and got paid and then you spent the money and when the order came in you ___________________you didn't know how to get it out of the post office so you could deliver it. You didn't have any money. The money was gone. Oh brother. She... somehow it worked out. We were poor. We used to look for food on the floor. (laughter) Where did you get that? Mother told me that I was looking for food on the floor. You have a story to tell about when Dad lost his job, how she felt. I often have felt that my older brothers and sisters really suffered in that I was 2 when he lost his job and I didn't. It was such a difference in their lifestyle. I believe my parents were very �popular. Each of them had a personality. They were so individual and yet my memory of them is that they were so compatible with one another. My older brother Amos and my sister Kathryn and probably Mary and all of them and probably you two guys remember so much more than I. But they had such status in the schools and so on. And then after it happened lost everything and then immediately this was probably August and in October they crashed. And so the circumstances exacerbated their job loss because they had a beautiful home and lots of status in the city and all of the sudden they were outcasts and my memory is that my father said ok we will use our savings because it was two years that they said they wouldn't renew his contract. And I believed that my father felt oh this couldn't happen to me. In a way maybe the planning wasn't as good but anyway they lost their home owing 500 dollars and no one in town would lend them the money. _________ needs a home. They didn't have any _______ left in that two year time and so they were pretty destitute and as Bill said our parents both grew up in very strict homes. And not so sure at that time that _____ were real crazy about Catholic. Forefathers ___________ catholic. But anyway the Catholics were very good to us. I know that they were very good to us after that. I think that it was a very hard time at that time. My father was very well educated, probably could have gotten... today we would have said why didn't he go to California. Well he just didn't pick up and go especially when it was the depression. So I thought all my life growing up that my father was the second Abraham Lincoln. Look how he stood up to those people. But I can see now that it... but it was a wonderful thing for me because I always felt so glad I was who I was. So I have always been happy and satisfied with circumstances of life are affect people different ways. It didn't hurt me like it did my older brothers and sisters. I don't think my sister ___ because the next week she was working at some cabins on Saturdays cleaning cabins and she was my father’s doll. He was still calling her doll when she was 30 years old. She was very much of a change that didn't happen_____. Bev: And Rob can you ask him what he remembers? The tough times in 1949 after Dad lost his job? Rob: The only thing I know was how lucky I was to have them for parents because I know god damn well I couldn't have handled it without them. They did good. It's tough to be fired. Quit talking about it. I can't a word anybody says. Bev: I think people today don't realize what people did live through and survived. Ok I have a card here about a stable. Who rented the horse on South Street? �You rented the horse in the stable behind our house on South Street. Oh yeah. Well Gene lives now. The house behind it used to be a stable. Of course there were not many houses. I can remember Bill Bacon. His Dad was a sheriff here in town. Bill Bacon that got murdered when Bill was just a kid. But they had a little bit of money. Bill and I were pretty good friends and I guess we were 14 or 15 years old. We rented two horses. We traveled that whole area where dinosaurs ____ everything. He had the money. It was fun. Since then that house that during the war I guess when I came back it had been rebuilt. Nice house and property at that time you did not have to own a certain piece to build a house on. This house that Gene lives in and that the house that used to be a stable wound up having a combined garage. The stable on one side of the garage and Gene had the other side. Things like that. Didn't have a full section. Hard to sell your house. Hard to do anything because you don't have enough land. Bev: Ok what about the houses on West Blvd. They were... What do you remember about those? The houses on West Blvd? Who lived there? Some of the business people? Some of the early people in Rapid City that you remember or families or whatever. Oh Kornbergs? that had the big flour mill. _____ they run the upper Blvd. Haxbys and the guy that was Hacket, the doctors, Dolly, ____, Dr. Lemley,? who built up on the hill, Old Haxby and who was that guy that had two sons that were close friends of yours. Leedy, Carl Leedy home- they were related to the Haxbys. Are you talking about old CI Leedy? We are talking about who had the old houses on West Blvd. The Bishop had one. He is still there. Barney Google Smith. �Bev: Can we talk about the Haxbys? I read a story one time that Mrs. Haxby was on one of the first bull trains that came to Rapid City when it was first started. That's true I read that too. I have no personal knowledge of that of course. Bev: She was one of the first people in Rapid City. And I don't recall all the details of it but I remember reading about it. I can remember just where her house is. And where was it? Well it’s between South and the next street isn't it? It's the second house after Fulton on the west side. Is it still there? Yeah, they remodeled the garage. And Carl Leedy's was right next door wasn't it. Yeah Did you say Carl Leedy? I didn't know him I knew CI Leedy. CI Leedy used to run Rapid City in that little City Hall. �Wasn't it Carl? Wasn't his name Carl? No, CI __________. Right it’s the same one we're talking about I just thought. He worked in Register of Deeds and then he worked at City Hall. He ran the whole works. Quite a guy. Watch him do a column of figures. He'd just go. Didn't have a calculator or anything. Do you have pictures of that? I have some. Bev: City hall I do yeah. He had an abacus. Isn't that funny we had that little thing you could put it in here that was at City Hall. Not long after City Hall was where the old library was. And the City Halls where now you take care of the people down on Main Street. Bev: Oh the Rescue Mission. That wasn't big enough. Now they are over at the school. They didn't do as good as the constabulary. They started out when I was a kid they had two phones downtown. Something happened they had to get to a phone call in to a man at the police dept. Send somebody over here. We only had very few people working but at night if old man Steinberg or that other cop they would take every building in town make sure it’s all locked up, everything’s done any kid running around said get home go home. They took care of the whole town if something really happened they would go find a phone and call up and I think then they could get the chief of police. He was probably home asleep. He didn't have much to do. They were taking care of everything. Now our police department has what 175 men working and a couple million dollar budget and we are having a problem about who ought to be chief. 1:00:14 �Bev: Any of you do you remember Billy Bacon? Billy Bacon. Rob was talking about him. Billy Bacon. Well we used to dive with Billy Bacon at the diving team or swim team. I guess but I know Bill Bacon was Rob's age wasn't Billy Bacon in your age. Billy Bacon he was more a friend of yours wasn't he? Oh yeah he grew up and was an electrician worked for Triankle. ? Bev: Ok what about his Dad as Sheriff? He started working while they was in high school. It's like Bill started taking pictures when they was in grade school but he was kind of an apprentice he worked here for a while then he worked for contractors he fell once building a big building over in Wyoming. Hurt his back. Didn't work much after that until he died. That's Billy but his Dad was the Sherriff. He owned the area where Baken Park is. He had a cabin camp out there. I thought Sam Baldwin owned that later. Well he did after he bought it from Bill Bacon. Named after Bacon. We filled up the lake up when I worked old Mann and they had to move all the cabins around that lake and everything. Before they built that Baken Park. And I don't remember who was sheriff after Mr. Bacon. Bev: Do any of you remember him as Sherriff really? You may have been too young. �Bill: No I tell ya there was one guy who was Sherriff or assistant sheriff. This is Bill and I can't recall his name right now but he had a gun shop also. And I can't remember his name but it wasn't Bacon I don't think. But I remember because he had a gun shop and he was a gun smith but he also sold guns and I was crazy about buying a certain gun when I was 13 and that's when I bought a gun from him and I apologize for not remembering his name. He was a great guy but he was connected with the Sheriff’s office in some way. At some time and he was a great guy because when you are 13 and don't have much money I wanted to buy a used gun and for a certain amount of money and he had taken the gun and held it because the man couldn't pay for the repair. So he was going to sell it to me. Well it came about that when I finally got enough money together he had given a gun back to the man because he could pay the bill and this great gentleman sold me a brand new 300 Savage for the same amount of money. And I will never forget it. And that 300 Savage lever gun is worth a lot of money today except somebody else has got it because it got stolen. But I apologize all my life I remember that man befriended me on that gun deal. And I have a lot of pictures of the gun but no gun. Bev: Were you all skiers? Ok let’s hear about that a little bit whoever wants to start. What was the question? Were you all skiers? Did you ski? No, very little. Very little. We had just straps and the things and skied the hills in the back. I kind of scared of it so I never. Bill he was good until he broke his leg about 20 times. That's why he quit I guess. I finally had to quit 25 years ago but I skied. We skied. We had ski jumps right on the hill behind the house. We skied all over Skyline Drive and had slalom courses and Buddy Cullem ? and Bruce Sisk that lived on the same street. We built a little cabin. We'd spend time up at that cabin behind the Brown Swiss Dairy. And up in the area where the new congregation church is now. And it wasn't all full of houses. And we would stay in that cabin and we'd ski back down to the house and change clothes and walk to the school of mines to go to school. And you met Alice on the ski slopes. I have skied for many years. I met my wife in Colorado when I was skiing there 62 years ago. And she can still ski I am sure but she has quit now. We skied a lot of places all �over the west. It's been a lot of fun. Did a lot of jumping and kind of hard on the bones when you break them all. And I've done that. Bev: What are your experiences? We used to go to Terry Peak every weekend to ski. I still have a bad ankle because it was a rope tow and I somehow got tangled so I was on the ground with the rope and the skis on my ankle but other than that it was fun. And waterskiing was fun. Bill had a boat and he would let anybody who wanted to. Yeah we always fun. We skied and waterskied and snow. And we ice skated at Wilson Park. There was a warming house there after school we took our skates with us. We were skating and frozen when we got home. We had to climb in bed to get rid of that (what do you call it when you got?) frostbite ahhhh man that hurt. Well we had good skating areas down on East Blvd. and Main St. right where the fire station is. There was a lower level that has since been filled but that was a great skating area. And they had a warming house and music and we learned to ice skate and dance and figure skate. Bev: You made a lot of your own entertainment. Joe and Dorothy what about experience that you might have had? Dorothy: Well we used to walk downtown after school and go to Cook's popcorn stand and get a nickel bag or 10 cent bag - usually about a nickel bag and just walk around town. There was everything downtown you could ask for. 6 drugstores, 5 or 6 grocery stores and all downtown. Department stores, Dotty Dunn hat shop, JC Penney, It was all right there. Safeway downtown. 3 dime stores. Bev: Jo do you have any ski memories? �Well my brother worked a lot but we always had jobs too. When we were young and I think I had got my first job at the theater when I was 14 or 15 years old. So we worked and I didn't go skating with them because I hated the cold. And I didn't ever learn to skate because I didn't want to be cold. But when I was in high school here the war was on and they started building the airbase we liked to go to the old auditorium and get acquainted with the flyboys. We used to go to the airbase and some of the plane simulators and pretend like you were flying. It was quite exciting to be in high school. I know my dear John my husband____ guys I thought wow. But it’s probably a good thing that didn't work out. Yeah that airbase was a little better than the Rapid City Airbase is __________. Yeah that was _____ airport. All the streets are named after Lindberg and stuff like that out there. Yeah that was right in town. _______ airplane tri plane and after the war I had company one time at Rapid City we had ________ auditorium I had to sign for the first couple helicopters that come to town. And that's where they had the land that just across from the mall up there where North Rapid ____. ______I think I don't know where Dad found the money but ____ take a ride in it. Dorothy: I'm Dorothy Well when I was in 5th grade my mother told me that she had a job at the USO. And she would fix a big meal at noon and at 1 p.m. she had to go to work. And she worked upstairs at the USO frying hamburgers and cooking meals for the GI's an their wives who would be in there. They really liked our Mom. They would call her Mom and there were a couple families she invited to our home for supper for the holidays. And many years later Mom and Dad went to the NEA convention no the teachers convention in Pennsylvania and one of those couples no, Bill Joldanos,? the Italian couple, they insisted that Mom and Dad come and stay with them while they were there so they kept those friendships a long time. Gene: While I worked at the theatre Rex. She worked at the Elks and State. But you got off late at night and I would go across the street upstairs and ride home with my mother. She worked at the USO. And then if our hours didn't match up and we had to walk home same thing happened to Jo, I would walk up the Blvd. with both arms outstretched because I knew somebody was going to jump out and attack me. I walked all the way home just scared to death. I really liked it if my mom was still working over there so I could get a ride. �Bev: And how old were you then? Gene: Well I was in high school. I am still scared afraid of the dark. When we lived on West Street I was probably in second grade. Bobby Jo and my brother John and this man in black. Black hat, black coat picked me up. And I still remember John saying "put my sister down" and running after me. Finally he let me down on the Blvd. But I've always disliked black. I didn't wear it. I probably still don't wear it. Yeah I am afraid of black and dark. Bill: I don't blame you. This is Bill. I found the other day pictures of the dance at the USO in the wartime years. And I don't think it’s in any of our books Bev but I just ran into that the other day. Bev: Didn't they have some USO activity in the Alex Johnson in the Ballroom? Bill: Well I think the ballroom, the place I remember was in the Duhamel building. Upstairs in the Duhamel building wasn't it? Yeah Well there was a ballroom in the Alex Johnson too. And there was I don't know I'd never been in a bar. Bev: No, I remember that they used to have dances up there and they were with jukebox you know they couldn't afford it was during the wartime. And that was in some of the research I did they had these jukebox dances and so forth for the soldiers. We had a jukebox when I was in high school. We had the Cactus Patch. Some girls yeah we all got in this contest to name this place where kids could go. We had a place to go besides McDonalds. The Cactus Patch. �Wasn't that in the Duhamel Building? No it was right next to the Rex Theatre. But we would go there after school. They had a jukebox. If you were lucky or cute you got to dance. We thought boy! Anyway. We also_____. But the beautiful dances were at Baken Park in the summer. Baken Park. The shutters were down and the screens. And they had a live orchestra. It was just the most exciting. Then they had Lawrence Welk at the auditorium once I remember. And Jessie Owens. Jessie Owens came here. _________ pictures. March of 38 Jessie Owens came to town. Man, I've still got those. _______. What a lot of exciting things in our lifetime. ______ in the basement. Bev: There was a lot of entertainment in Rapid City. From looking at old papers. Movies were big things. Dances were big things. The Alfalfa palace out at the fairgrounds was a big thing. �Rainbow Ballroom ... ok Do you know what they used to do at the Elks Club... they'd have a double feature and I remember being there with my mother and everyone held tightly to their stuff because they had an intermission between the two features and somebody came out and they had a huge remember old round baskets filled with groceries and whoever held the lucky stuff got the basket of groceries. The theatre was just jammed. Bev: Another thing and I came on to a lot of this when Bill and I were working on the first Rapid City book and I was going through his old photos but the grocery stores had really unusual promotions on things. And gas stations and I know they gave away Shetland ponies and there were raffles. For a Studebaker right around 1950 and does anybody remember any of those times? Well I don't remember that. I remember where the Studebaker garage was though down in what was the name of that guy Morris? Morrison. Yeah he had the Studebaker dealership. That old building is still there on it's probably 4th and main. 4th and St Joe right? That old building. He had that a long time. Yeah that's where the Studebakers were. He tried to stop a fight in front of his business and died. I went to the prom with Tom Collins. And he had the first car that I'd ever been in that had automatic transmission. ______Oldsmobile. Man was it cool. A little red light came on and it just drove away. �And I learned to drive at the farm with Grandpa's old ford. That they had to crank it to start it and you could drive it over the field but if you let the clutch out it would stop and you had to crank it again. That was the tractor wasn't it? No it was a black car and man was it fun. �� Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Groethe Family transcript pt. 1 https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/46614/archive/files/00af7e718ff8cb0570a0e2d41eb79ecc.pdf?Expires=1792627200&Signature=E3NSLt1u%7EQGr-NQ97kqmWaEFbcM0iZ13SBhG4VoNAz2CUtiSX6CyWIsy4fJDSxWCjml8hzR07mcmFTICSLI1U1c50wRybnhL2IYgkUp9boe9dPQndRyOOyhYJCwEC5RCU2PGXLuVAbgwHRyHgAVWyoT2Crse%7EyF%7EEh696W8gvvU6F51XwY62scY3QzA8g-0P-DLbkZlny2GD6S8UQg0Q5fNhPbowcnOaKGQj-kJjU7SZCwiaEVF2AD5X71PvgXBSYxLwwo3hk4N2-VkhsMR0D9IUdELCxac7Jax0Am-0KPU7k5KM64j7s98kcdixmCVOb-QGGD1QSwGcUmsGtstubA__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 34578e22e76a8ae03d22b907a96f1d36 PDF Text Text **Disclaimer: Not all voices are identified and family names are difficult to hear/spell. Groethe Family Part 2 We're continuing on with the interviews and the Groethe family and lets any of you can just jump in here but just a little while ago we discussed popular places that everybody hung out at and Mills Drug there were three Mills Drug stores I guess, Who has memories of the Mills Drugstores? Which Mills Drug do you want? Anyone you want to talk about. Rob: They had the one right downtown in the what was the name of the _______. Brekkus.. ? Harold Mills had it. Up above in the next building was American Legion Hall. Only thing I remember about Mills Drug was I knew a guy that was later on worked for the state highway department and he had a motorcycle and he would deliver things for Mills Drug. Mills Drug was a big place. Grilled Cheese sandwiches a dime. Things like that. Big malt for 20 cents a quarter something. Of course at that time if you had a dime you could go to Rex or Elks theatre also. I never had any money so I never spent much time in Mills Drug. My brother and sisters they can tell you about Mills Drug. They also had a Drugstore out towards Baken Park. They had one on 8th street. Bev: I remember that during WWII when they were working on the base and so forth that Mills Drug did a lot of things for the war effort. They made sandwiches to take out to the workers and out to the base and had a lot of patriotic displays in their windows. And really were part of the community. I remember reading about too that they had crews up until midnight taking and making sandwiches and things like that for the people that were working at the base. I don't remember of the Drugstore but I remember the one on 8th street as a Drugstore was Mills Drug as more of a pharmacy. I am sure they had one downtown but it catered to all these guys that had all the money that could buy all those malts, and cokes and hamburgers. Oh come on (Laughter) Well Gene practically ran Mills Drug. How long did you work there? Gene: I worked there for 8 years. Bev: At which Drug store? �Gene: Downtown. And I really feel fortunate that I did have that job. I came back in the summers when I was in college and worked there. But when I was in high school I wanted to work at Mills Drug cause I had a couple friends who had jobs there and I went in and prayed when you go apply for a job. But I went in and I met Wells Fernesy.? He was one of the three Pharmacists and I said to him. You don't need any more people to work here do you? And he said I don't know about that. And we went back in this office and I started working at Mills Drug and the way they trained me some of the people who work now at checkout you know they say there ya go. Have a good day or I don't know if we own it or have it but why don't you look over there. Just the opposite of what those guys, how they trained us. You didn't send anybody over there. You went over there. We did say thank you. I never ____ though. I did though. My husband was a soda jerk for a while. I'd sneak in there and look at him. Bev: Before you were married? Oh yeah. Bev: And which Drugstore? Downtown Ok. And the first thing I ever remember about it is our sister Kathryn taking me there and I got a grilled cheese sandwich at the counter with a pickle and a malt and it was like Wow uptown. Those older sisters of ours were pretty nice to us. But when I worked there, there was no soda fountain. I don't know when that was gone. But that's why I never ate there. Bev: Ok Bill do you have memories? Of Mills. I should say. They were our biggest customer when we did finishing. I did finishing for Carol Mills for 35 years. 35 years I did finishing until he sold the stores. When I was a kid he the overnight finishing was mostly for Mills Drug right across the street from Mills Studio. And he would pick up the film and we'd do it overnight and deliver it. We'd work from 6 o'clock at night to 6 in the morning. And deliver most of the work from Mills Drug and there was only that one at that time. And have many pictures of the old soda fountain of course and the kids all lined up there getting those malts that were so great. That's what I did. Then after the war when the ______ was clearing and I started my own in '57 and Mills had a built a Drugstore on West Main right near where our present shop is and it's H & R block now and he built that building. That was Mills SuperDrug. And when we started working out of the basement of our own business. They were our first pickup for overnight. And we continued as long as Carol had Drugstores we did his photo finishing. At Belle and at our own plant. He was a great man. He sponsored baseball teams and different things. He was just a great benefit to Rapid City. He was a great employer I am sure. Gene can attest to that but he was so great to deal with in a business sense. You see it was totally different when he sold ____ to somebody and I don't want to continue on names but I tell you everything went downhills since but that's another story. Bev: Dorothy, do you have memories of Mills Drugstores? �Dorothy: Only that my sister worked there, Gene. And sometimes I'd go down there and visit with her and watch her work. Bev: Green Acres. Talk about Green Acres. Anybody start. Bill: Oh I know about that. I was the lifeguard there when I was 13. I worked from 8-12 hours a day for a dollar and two meals. Bev: And that was a public pool? Bill: No it was a private pool. It was owned by Pete Hats? who owned the building which was later the Esquire club and now houses Coldwell Bankers on the top of the hill on West Main. He had a little motel with a private pool. And all the rich kids, the doctors kids and everybody. Dr. Dolly's kids and they were, they went to that pool and it cost I don't know how much. 10 cents... Anyway I was a lifeguard there that summer to 37 because I wasn't making any money at Belle they didn't have any money and I was still working there during the winter but I was just __________. I was glad_____. I made 90 dollars that summer and most of it went to a camera and supplies which I still have. It still works. Bev: And another landmark the Duhamel building and they used to have Indian dancers in front of the building and what about memories of the Duhamel building? Anybody. Rob: The Duhamel building you say? Oh only remember because the whole basement they built the saddles and bridles and sold things like an easy washer that was run with a Briggs and Stratton gas motor. We had no power out here. No REA electricity. My father in law worked for old Pete Duhamel at the Duhamel building and he built a thing on the back of his car and he put an easy washer on the back of that and he knew every rancher and farmer around here and he would drive out and of course the man would come out of the barn and look at it. The woman would come and they'd tell them what it was and it was sold right now because she had been washing like this. So he would unload it and the guy would say start it up and Babe would say you start it because you gonna have it you gonna be here. He couldn't change a lightbulb without a little help. He was afraid he couldn't start it. The guy he could do anything. He could start it and sold it right now. And Babe was such a salesman he would probably trade cars with a guy while he was out there because he also had where he could deal with cars. He would sell his own and bring the other one in as a down payment. It's a good thing we had a lot of people because he could go out twice or three times a week and sell an easy washer. Bev: Oh my goodness. Ok. Jo: This is Jo. Rob told me the other day that at the Duhamel Indian dances they would have the Indian dances the Ku Klux Klan would have a parade in the same area and he can remember seeing that. Yeah but up where I live on the back side of the hill where we built the housing project the Indians used to come there and camp. They would march and do things in town they'd camp on the Sunnyside backside of that hill. And put up the tents and everything. �Everything was horse drawn. And then we would come gypsies. Gypsies used to come to this town. I will tell you the Indians would leave right now. The gypsies would just run them out. Of course the gypsies had automobiles. But that's one thing I can remember from back on the now I live on that hill and the hill crest is up here and houses all over the thing. It was just.. one of the schools is a country school just a block from where I live today. Abstract on my house.. the people that came out here and founded Rapid City and did things out here was so smart. My abstract reads the names of the streets that I'm up in the Robbinsdale area when it was still plotting 360 acres or 320 acres something like that. Of course it narrowed down, narrowed down, narrowed down. The school wasn't closed until 30-40 years ago. The country school. It was a grade school and a church right over in that area now. That just about two blocks from where I live. When Wilson school was built I can remember Dad said they gave him the devil because he thought the school should be where it is. They said it’s too far out in the country. I got to go there about the first year. It's been re-built a couple times. Bev: You are talking about the gypsies. Does anybody remember the gypsy queen and the funeral? The gypsy queen.. .about 1954? Yeah they had a big funeral for her at the old Catholic church. I've got pictures of that some place. Bev: Yeah we put them in the book. Yeah it's in the book Bev: Yeah anybody have memories, anybody go to the funeral? Ok anybody remember anything else on the Duhamel building that they want to talk about? Bill: Well they used to sponsor the Indian Dances. Bud Duhamel dances and also they were between the Alex Johnson Hotel and the Duhamel Building and they had Indian Dances there quite often. And we used to go watch them and of course Duhamel also had the Indian Dances out at his Sitting Bull Caverns. In front of the Duhamel Building actually was part of the Alex Johnson in years past when Burt Bell was sponsoring or trying to promote the highway 85 from Canada to Mexico. He used to bring the _____ down from Saskatchewan and hold they would play their bagpipes and stuff in front of Duhamel and the Alex and attract people to watch that he was promoting Highway 85. That was before the war. And I was a kid. I used to put bumper stickers on your cars promoting Highway 85. The .. I forget just the word I am looking for but it was a three... Intercontinental Highway and people today are trying to start promoting that again. And they will probably be more successful with all the activity and the money available in North Dakota. Bev: Ok I am going to jump back to Rob a second here. We were talking before we were on camera. You mentioned the Klan when they were active here used to burn crosses on Reservoir Hill. Rob: Remember what? Bev: The Klan burning crosses on Reservoir Hill. �Rob: Oh yes. Bev: Can you talk a little bit about that? Rob: Oh I never went up there. I was scared. But I do remember that. I remember them marching around town. I remember you didn't know who they were. They knew who they were but they all wore the hoods and everything. They were pretty frightening. I thought they scared a lot of good people. Bev: Dinosaur Park, Bill you told me you were good friends with the man who worked on that and had some stories that you told me previously about him and about Dinosaur Park. Bill: Well ________Sullivan was the sculptor but my relationship with him was through Bell Studio originally because we did postcards of his work. His sculptures. Other than his work on the prehistoric pieces. I made photographs of that during construction or Belle did. And but I was acquainted later on again with him because his daughter married one of my classmates. Jerry Brennan. And so in fact Jerry went on from our school here to become a lawyer and a judge. He's gone now but his wife his widow still lives in Rapid. She came back to Rapid. But I had more of a relationship with the daughter later on. But during those years when we were doing postcards for him well of course I was involved because I printed them. So he was often in Bells studio. Bev: And Bernard Thomas? Well Bernard Thomas was a sculptor of the dioramas at the Dahl which are presently there but also he did that diorama for the old Rapid City National Bank which our Art Dahl had him do which was a straight flat non circular situation. That bank burned and that mural was gone. And they had it redone __________ Fine Arts Center. We photographed both of those dioramas at night with big cameras pieced together. ______ in the old bank pieces took us 12 hours to shoot 8 pictures to match. And it took us about 12 or 13 hours to shoot ___________ Dahl. And so that's who Thomas was. Bev: Gene you spent several years at the Rapid City Public Library. Gene: I loved working at the library. I've been a teacher and after my son Robert was born, I said I can't teach anymore. It's too much work all weekend. So I applied. I got a part time job at the library. And after about 1 year well I like it here. I will go to school at DU and get the masters so I can make some money. Took 7 kids with me to go to school for a year. It was fun wasn't it Robert. You go to the library after midnight when you want to do your work if you bring your kids with you. We had the best apartment in the whole complex student housing because we had so many children that they saved this apartment. It had 3 bedrooms. But anyway this library, I came back and they said I should be the children’s librarian because the children’s librarian here wanted to be the assistant director. So I got that job as a children’s librarian for a couple years. You wouldn't have had to get your Masters. You had experience reading to your own children. �But when I came back they had ________ money, the board and also I got that school loan. But when I came back and I had that Masters and I was a children’s librarian and not a Circulation Assistant. I got a 10 cent raise. I still remember that. I was really responsible for getting a union in this library. Because of things like that. I worked with people who didn't have Masters who made more money. It was pretty bad here. Anyway then I became reference librarian. And I really liked that. Got all ages. Really fun. I was here almost 20 years. 24:15 Bev: The flood. The Flood. You came and told me there was high water. The Saturday morning and there was a flood. Oh yeah. Bill got his boat out and took it down to Jackson Blvd. to help people up and down. It was a bad deal. I worked at Pete Lien at the time. We ain't never got hurt in the quarry but Pete was smart enough to try and help everybody. Everything we had whether it was Caterpillar Tractor or loader or what. He just put it to work. We had stockpiles of different materials if they needed them someplace and we could get there we took it there. No tickets were ever written. He was reimbursed and I'm sure he felt good about that. He did a wonderful job. It was a sad thing. A bad thing. Bill I helped later on a little more you knew what happened but Bill was there that night. I got up after it rained so bad and I helped the people next door. The woman’s husband was a truck driver and he was out. Water was starting to get in her house a little bit. Helped her dam up her house a little bit. I never thought it was bad until trying to get to work. I couldn't get out what used to be Deadwood Ave. It’s still Deadwood Ave but you had to go across a creek and under a viaduct and a few things to get there. I had to go out interstate to get over to Pete Liens. Never knew really what happened until I got to work of course. You'd go to work at 6 in the morning. But I had a lot of friends that lost their lives there. Some of them trying to help someone else lost their lives. Like Herb Whitey and his wife were in some kind of group that helped people and they were out on Box Elder creek out by Box Elder where it crosses between there and Piedmont. Boy the river came up and his wife fell and Herb went after her and we found both of them way, way miles away. On the old road to Sturgis is where we found them. But most of them I think were in motels weren't they Bill and things like that up Rapid Creek. They lost a lot of people. Bill: Bill: I guess I didn't know what you were talking about exactly. I was awful busy so I actually didn't have a boat to take but we found a boat floating by when we were out behind the old Bennett Hospital. And my neighbor boy Anderson was with me and I had a bunch of lifejackets from my boat and we waded out chest deep in the water trying to throw those jackets to anybody coming by and a boat came floating by with two guys in it. Well they were School of Mines students. They were working part time jobs at the water treatment plant just up the street. And this boat came by so wee puled it in and the guys got out and they had tried to start it but there was wire around the prop. So I had experience with boats so I took the wire off the prop and we got the motor started and one of the School of Mines boys went with me and then we took that boat out then. And went across the current and went out and got people out of trees and so on. And we brought in three and then we went out again and brought in another and then we went home. And I think the problem was that I had a big plant here for _____ and I had a plant in Grand Island and one in Casper so �we were shut down in Rapid for a week because we didn't have water. We had a new building but it was secure but it was _____. We had to get it cleaned and we didn't have any water. So we shipped a carload of film to both of those plants for a week. And then we got back in operation. So we had 32 production employees during the flood. Two shifts and we were producing over 2000 rolls of film a day. There were over 200 newsmen from all over the world here. Plus everybody else and all the regular accounts which came from several states actually. So we had a peak day of 2600 rolls of film. ______flood. Bev: And you told me previously that was probably the only time major event you never took any photographs. Bill: I didn't take ____ they had the 40th anniversary. Don Barnett called me and said Oh Bill we need your pictures. I said what are you talking about? I didn't take any pictures. I said I was busy cleaning up my plant. And doing your pictures. And so I didn't take any pictures. And so I didn't take any pictures but I wasn't interested in taking pictures of wrecks and peoples trouble. I did a lot of that when I was in the service and I wasn't interested in that anyway. But we got the job done and we produced the film for the newsman even because we could handle any kind of professional film as well. That's how we spent the night. Bev: And the water was cold? Bill: Well the water was cold but we could heat it up. In those days we used all kinds of water. We built that plant and we had a 500 gallon water heater because everything used water. We had so many people working and so many darkrooms and printers you couldn't count them. Bev: I'm talking about to going into the water rescuing people. I heard the water was terribly cold. Bill: Oh I never noticed that. I never thought about it. Jo: I didn't live here during the flood we had moved from Rapid City but I was friends in Denver. We lived in Boulder with Francis Smiths sister Millie married to Bob Fenton a big contractor in Denver and she grew up next door to us practically and she told me that my brother Bill rescued her father from the hospital out there by Baken Park in the home for older people. __________ What was? Bill: I never saw them again for 25 years Jo: Joe Smith. You got him out of that hospital and got him into the boat and got him to safety. Bill: Well there was one man with his son and Millie Deeder was up in a tree. She jumped out and about tipped over the boat. But then we got Dr. Johnson the veterinarian out behind Haggerty's later on. Jo: And who was the ... I went to high school with him. His first child had problems when he was born. He had several children. I can't come up with his name. His sister worked at the laundry for years and years. But anyway the grandmother took care of that child and she I �read in the Rapid City paper that she held that child up for____ Lutz, yeah Rapid City Laundry and Dry Cleaner. Joann Lutz and John Lutz. They held that child, it wasn't a baby. A special needs child, we didn't call them that then. That grandmother saved her. I would read in the Denver papers about the flood and so many names that died were from the... I have one thing I would like to add. We had 32 people in production plus our sales staff and so on but of those 8 of them, %25 lost everything in the flood. Bev: Gene or Dorothy, memories? All I remember, not all I remember, I remember not being able to go west. I lived in town so I didn't have any water but I could not go to Canyon Lake or Baken Park, it was after August. The flood was in June. I couldn't go there until it was... my two older went to work there. A lot of people got involved in cleanup out there. Bev: You couldn't go emotionally? I couldn't go emotionally. I'd 36:08 Bev: Dorothy do you have memories? Dorothy: I didn't live here at the time so I was scared. Gene: Robert you were what, 1 year old? Lost a lot of friends and their mothers and fathers. Bill: One thing that I have... if you don't want to hear it thats ok.. this is Bill. I got home at 3 o'clock in the morning. The neighbors kids were all up there because we were higher on the hill. They lost their home. Their mother was out of town. The kids were a friend of my kids. And they had a German exchange student and the three, the kids and the exchange student spent the night up at our house where the flood was below us and I got home about 430 in the morning I got a phone call. And it was my ex commanding officer who I hadn't seen for.... (weeping) Bev: Now what other things about Rapid City does anyone remember as far as oh things that happened or other places that you went. You talked quite a bit about ball rooms and I know that from looking at old newspapers they had a lot of nightclubs and ballrooms and Gene. Gene: I want to start the talk about the old city auditorium. We learned to tap dance there. The National Guard shot their guns and marched and trained. Do you remember the city auditorium Rob? Rob: Oh sure they used to have the dances and boxing matches. We had everything. It didn't cost like the new one it was all free. Beautiful building I thought. One guy took care of the whole thing. Latrines and everything. Can't think of his name now. National Guard had a company that headquartered and we drilled once a week in the old auditorium. The boxing matches, they'd have wrestling matches. Two of my friends, the Leedy kids, they were twins. Dave and Dan Leedy and they would fight the curtain raiser for the boxing matches. I �called them the paper weights. Because they weren't very big. They have a little scrap and people would throw money in the ring. They got the money. Then they would have different boxing matches. Didn't cost any money to get in the theatre or anything else. And I always remember because their Dad made them put the money in the bank. In the Pennington County Bank and the county bank went broke. I think they got paid 10 cents on the dollar. Dave always talked all his life of all the money he lost in the Pennington County Bank when they went broke. I don't know I suppose they had maybe a couple hundred bucks. 40:53 There was something about _____________ and being paid that our Mom used to talk about when our Dad was County Superintendent. The City or County must have been out of funds. Bev: They were like IOU's I believe And they had a heck of a time getting money out of them. I kind of remember that. But I remember going to that auditorium . And Bob Hope came. And I never like Bob Hope but I went because he was there. And guess what happened there before the main event of Bob Hope came. Your son Dickie Groethe came out and tap danced. I was so shocked I couldn't believe it. I didn't know he could dance. I don't know whether he would either. Bev: And Bob Hope started out as a tap dancer so that would have been an interesting. He was the beginning thing in Vegas, what do you call that? opening act Bev: Gene Autry was here too. Does anybody remember when he came? Nope I remember when Roosevelt came. Bev: Ok talk about that. FDR In an car, paraded through town. A very long car. Bev: Then he went up to Rushmore and so forth. And in '48 I believe the Freedom train came through here. Do you remember the Freedom Train? What was that, displays? Bev: It was a train, full size train, and it carried all sorts of American documents across the country stopped in different cities and they had thousands of people turn out for it and Rapid City.... What year was that? Bev: I believe it was 1948. But it stopped here in Rapid City and it had tremendous numbers of people show up to see it. You don't remember that ok. Eisenhower was here in 53 . He was in a parade. Do you remember him being here? �Yeah I do. I remember I shot pictures of him in the parade in front of Mills Drug. And probably in one of our books. Shot it from Joe Smiths office on the second Floor front of the old building where Belles was. I used to shoot pictures of the parade through Smiths office. Because he was in the front of that building. It's a smoke shop now but it used to be ____Post office the MDU and Belles studio was upstairs at the back end of the building. Twenty one steps and 100 feet. And you carried two big flood lights and an 8 x10. Why didn't you take_______. What are you talking about? I hauled that stuff up those steps for so many years. Jo: Do you remember when SD got the first Driver’s License Law? and This was just before we moved away and my husband worked for a man named Jim Gibbon and he was blind couldn't see. And I mean he wasn't just legally blind , it was the whole way. And he was the first person in Rapid City SD to get his drivers license the first day they were open. He was such a funny man but he insisted he be first in line and they loved him. Because they forgot to put in the little thing about you got to be able to see. Oh we had fun with that. I can't remember much about that except they were both just wonderful people. They did a lot of things for Rapid City._________. Bev: When the Alex Johnson had, I think at that time it was KOBH, up in the penthouse in the Alex Johnson in the broadcasting studio, any memories of that? And they used to broadcast live from up there. And Bill Goodhope, wasn't he wonderful. Yes, and Art Jones, classmate of mine Art was. He was an announcer on there but Bob Dean was a great egomaniac. He got the job. And who ran the Gate City Guide. Nate Werner? and after that was someone my age. Nate Werner was down in the basement on 7th. Bev: And what about local celebrities that you remember like Allie Hand, I remember hearing about her. Please take your turn. Buddy Meredith Jo: But he came to me and said I am playing at your wedding. It wasn't _______. The old Catholic church ___________. Bev: Talk a little bit about Allie. Gene: She played at the Canyon Lake and the Esquire Club. If you need some illustrations for your book I got them. She did a lot. She played and sang at the Esquire club. �Bev: Buddy Meredith was mentioned and he is still out there I think or has he retired? He is still alive and Slim whatever? Is the Esquire club still there? Esquire club is now a Real Estate company. Pete Hats ?_________ next to the Harney Hotel and they owned that swimming pool. What's that last name? Pete Hats Well we had a lot of good restaurants. _____One of your wives brother ran that cafe downstairs after a while where the congress cafe was didn't your brother in law run that cafe there. Yeah he had that one. Had the Virginian, had the A and F And it was the Patten Hotel downtown. They had a place in the basement where you could play ____no it was a record player. We'd go there and dance. Jeannie was a late baby though._________ and she, we all got out of it, we had been at Palin Drug I suppose, Ed Sewell? Who else was there? So we get up to the door and she turns to Chief Miller oh you can't come in Chief. I shouldn't name names. Do you know who Chief Miller is? Bev: No. He was a beautiful athlete in high school when I was and he won everything. And he just hung out with our gang. Chief Miller_______ he won state Champion. He was a great football player and a big swimmer. He was a long swimmer. But my memory to this day I am so mad at myself that I didn't take him. I went in the house and danced and Chief walked home. It's terrible and later we had Arthur ? a boy that dated her for longer than anybody. But we had Indian kids here in the house when we were little. Gene: One of them we played baseball. ______________ on the corner. Everybody came there to play and eat. And I was catching and Francis Eagle Tail was batting and he knocked me out. Not on purpose. But they were in our class. Bev: Was there a division like there seems to be now or did everybody just more or less fit in and got along. �Oh I think it used to be worse. Where I worked had a lot of Indians that worked. Real good people that came to work every day. And get paid. They'd get picked up in town if they hadn't had a drink. Put in jail. Bond so much. I could go get them out of jail. But they knew that they just got paid so it was a way. Just like when everything was really bad and so many people would ride the freight trains come through here. They'd take ‘em off, they hadn't done a thing, they’d take them off the plane, the train and put them to work panning for gold down by where the fairgrounds is. The police would. The place for them you put them in the pen they are going to get mean, mad. Take them out and work them they are going to get tired. Take them back home they are going to go to bed. Bev: Why would they have them panning gold? There wasn't any gold in the creek but they sure got tired. Bev: Any other memories on that sort of thing? The tramps, we called them tramps. They came. They had certain houses I think where they knew they could get food. They came to our back door on Cross Street. Well they probably smelled the Cinnamon rolls. I still, if I have any classmates alive. That's why they liked it. I'm so old. Could we just go over there and get a piece. They were all.. we'd come up from school and the whole counter everywhere in the house. Brown paper sacks torn, cut so they'd lay flat and those cinnamon rolls.. good. And every kid I ever knew. Got any today? Do you think there's cinnamon rolls? We sure had a lot of people eating at our house. Each of us had a bunch of friends and they would just come there and live kind of. You have continued that tradition. (laughter) Bev: Ok well we are just about at the end of our time. So any other thoughts that any of you would like to contribute right now. I am sure you will think of things later and we can do this again. You talk too softly I can't hear. Bev: Do you have any other things that you can remember that you would like to talk about right now? Oh there are a lot of things I wouldn't talk about. No, it’s fun listening to them. Usually they don't let me talk. Bev: Oh I see. I was very impressed with something Bill said earlier about this Bellamy. He was such a big, big person in the city I know but I had no realization that that was a housing project with the government. �Bill: Yeah this is Bill. It was Rob that talked about Bellamy building that spending government money on a shale hill. The same Bellamy that __________ had all the buses the tour buses and great big buses. And so he knew how to get the grant but my husband and I lived there our first apartment before we left town. And the banker’s daughter lived by us. I didn't know it was subsidized housing. We dug the ditches and I will tell you in that shale that had no protection never thought about it and some of it 7 foot deep, I was not tall enough. I had to have a long handled shovel to get the damn thing out of there. And have a guy walk by with a bucket of water and dipper and give you a drink of water every now and then. You got out about noon had something to eat and went back in the ditch. Same way mixing the concrete. Didn't have redimixes. Trucks would haul the sand, trucks would haul the gravel somebody else would haul the cement. You mixed it right there. And wheeled it right there. Sometimes we snuck in a little shale because we ran out of rock but the foundations and everything are still there even the ones that moved out. Bev: It was my understanding that when Bellamy got the contract to build those houses it was for returning soldiers and their families and there was a big to do about rent controls. You couldn't charge more than an allowed government rate because housing was so short. It was very hard to find someplace to live. Bev: Anything else? Any last thoughts for today? It's been great thank you. Suffice it to say we are very proud to be of a great family of Amos and Emma and we will never forget them. My Dad is 133 this year. What'd Bill say? That we liked our parents. There was no question. I just thought I had the best ones. Wonder how the hell they ever did it. I don't know how they figured that out. They never ever, I never once ever heard them times are tough I don't know what we are going to do. And I thought my kids sometimes I got one that says I remember when it was really .... �It was so funny everything they got today back then the government set up a program if you were an 8th Sioux you were on the program. Everybody in town was an 8th Sioux just about. Commodity came out of old Swander Bakery. You know what the government gave away because it was surplus. Smoked salmon. What's it cost today? They used to give that away. Used to give cheese. 5 pound wooden boxes and codfish. In the salted wooden boxes. Things like that. Nobody hollered about food stamps or anything else. You just went down and picked up because hopefully somebody in the family find a job or something. If somebody was working then you were off that anyway the minute they got working. But it makes you wonder all these subsidy's back then how come now they have to grow the salmon in private pools. You know because they have enough of it. They don't eat them because they’re poison We had a lot of good things to eat. Didn't realize how much money it’s supposed to cost. And our parents didn't go to the poor farm. They had one though. They used to go visit an old teacher that lived out there. Mr. Hines. They took him for a ride. He was in the poor farm. And sometimes we could sit in the back seat. He got the passenger side with the window open and he'd spit out the tobacco and it'd come right back.... I couldn't stand that old man. And that must have been the poor house. But our mother told me once that you could write to the, what you call the government agency agriculture, they would send you packets of seeds for your garden. And one year they sent only cabbage seeds to our folks and she said boy. You didn't think about complaining and not sending them back or say could I trade. We just ate cabbage. Oh I still just love cabbage. Bev: Ok well thank you so much � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Groethe Family transcript pt. 2 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interviews Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Rapid City Public Library Description An account of the resource Oral Histories recorded for the Rapid City Oral History Project by Rapid City Public Library Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Dorothy A. Miller Jean E. Diggins William "Bill" Groethe Robert Jackson Groethe Joan Groethe-Solon Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Bev Pechan Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 1:20:58 Location The location of the interview Rapid City Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview: Groethe Family Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2014-08-13 Subject The topic of the resource 1972 Flood, ballrooms, Black Hills, City Auditorium, construction, Dinosaur Park, Duhamel Building, Duhamel Saddle Makers, Esquire Club, farming, Great Depression, Green Acres, gun collecting, horses, Hotel Alex Johnson, Mills Drugstore, Mount Rushmore, photography, ranching, Rapid City, Rapid City Public Library, restaurants, Roosevelts, South Dakota, South Dakota Laws, Terry Peak, theatres, USO, Warren Lamb Lumber, World War II Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource signed releases to Rapid City Oral History Project on file. Description An account of the resource Five members of the Groethe family are interviewed by Bev Pechan. The family had many memories of living in Rapid City, SD. They took turns speaking about what they could remember, and also spent some time discussing what one sibling remembered compared to another sibling. Topics included in the interview are World War II, historic buildings, one family member's time working at Rapid City Public Library, the Flood of 1972, and more. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context https://catalog.rapidcitylibrary.org/cgi-bin/koha/opac-detail.pl?biblionumber=289880 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Rapid City Oral History Project Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Rapid City Public Library Language A language of the resource en Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Rapid City Public Library Historic Rapid City Rapid City Library Foundation Alex Johnson Hotel Ballrooms Construction Duhamel Building Farming Great Depression Green Acres Gun collecting Horses Mount Rushmore Photography Ranching Rapid City South Dakota Terry Peak Theatres USO Warren Lamb Lumber World War II https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/46614/archive/files/5428d16b479a6a1251477a0c4bfcf1b7.mp3?Expires=1792627200&Signature=PtKhAmE70UhpmULAuwCviAJ0naY0CJsaojgpSE9dBOw3L81aHg3oCZ2-FTir-WzKQmUHiX1fABOROdxEHVs-QEQiWJbXr8JURCwZy1Brv1Sk1PyfoNo-kUEbTy8xyU0lLLHcLPxdGm7xTk%7E2T5o8xNSvoPJaoKPQQRFAqtgkPxbGNSwP-Hwt5-lWg0E6dI26E8LcfQVDGJ50BRximTANScSuiEDWdZbzbATNf7lKa4NaSh9GkOXgjQo8vcsCvuN7PPWI-PuZGNAnL9EbIt3BxbmpeI974IrtvBMflorHr-1WE4deZYMyeT7NBhUoCgLzdHkAvF5%7E2EsYVDE7qEEafA__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM fbff4a4aa5b540bbc0d53d747f29c67e Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Ron Johnsen audio https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/46614/archive/files/115c11b7b0fc93c08858c81ba51e5b02.pdf?Expires=1792627200&Signature=KEbuLoiEIiK1M6uB0nhnN%7EzkzuDpR54L-swtcYYNXqS78AlWgOGPRtHfel6g9W%7ELJYSANe%7EMc2geC%7EhZmGvEE88m3PKfD%7ERUpnXThxO3oIoPF3zjVEp3cGLitcDKncVxJ5C62MUDxlrHXYas9-2KXtYtm7d50C7qWMtVPPKEpTmeyd3C5jzzvNfsfIku5VTxgnQchzvLCT1VivHUJalzhQ3E9%7EjYFcssC5RrEGiG9gTWkj1c-EZrjhNjPabNfji5-ioowa08ep0Ggb464PmkPknr1nZnTL1jPANHAGoxDUbVH2yBd9wuBgg3tXxxTwaPjOaQuERwKTTRItgRrdAMlw__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM bebf50e3629e8b02d7e1b1ac5edebe5e PDF Text Text Kim: It's Wednesday September 10th, 2014 at approximately 9 am. This is Kim Morey and I will be interviewing Ron Johnsen today. A Lifelong resident of Rapid City and active in the aviation community. The next part that we hear will be the interview with Mr. Ron Johnsen. Ron: I am Ronald Johnsen. I am 71 years old and I was born in Rapid City SD in 1943 and raised here and lived here until 1969 when I decamped to Washington DC for 30 plus years and returned here in 2000. My recollections of growing up in Rapid City. I'd preface it by saying my father was in the construction business specifically concrete construction. And what brought my family to Rapid City was Ellsworth AFB. In those days known as Rapid City AFB. Maybe Army Air Force Base. In the building of the large concrete hangar out there which still stands. My father was a concrete finisher and he worked for the general contractor on that hangar and I believe that was either Hackett construction or Garland construction. I am pretty sure it was Garland Construction. So construction has always been a part of my life and I remember clearly my Dad working on the Sears building in Downtown Rapid City which has now been refurbished and houses several stores including Mitzi's books and Seelys. And I also remember up the street the total re-do of the old Penneys building which was done in about 1950 or 1951. In the old days in the Penneys building they didn't have cash registers. They had instead and area where the clerk wrote up the ticket and then you gave the clerk the money and via a pneumatic tube they sent it up to the office on the second floor. And there the transaction was completed and the tube was sent back down with your receipt. .But the great thing about the second floor was at Christmas, they would have Santa Claus come and they actually gave out free presents to children who went up there. So it was interesting to watch Rapid City change in terms in the '50s of the construction that took place downtown, be it churches or commercial establishments. Sort of jumping forward to my teenage years, I went to the old Cathedral High School. The high school that was the Catholic High school and it was located behind Immaculate Conception church on 5th Street. It is now a parking lot and behind that is the old convent that still stands which is now the triangle fraternity. Our Catholic high school was very small I don't think we had more than 45 students in each class. But the nice thing was is that we seniors were allowed to go over to Rapid High and take several courses if we wanted including Chemistry and Architectural drawing. So that was a wonderful arrangement they had between the two school systems. Rapid City High School is a much, much larger high school and we never played them in basketball because we were two different classes entirely and so our basketball games for Cathedral High school were with Mitchell and Sioux Falls and things like that being the only other Catholic Schools. Growing up here too. Life was just extraordinarily wonderful. The old library was down at the corner of 6th and Kansas City which now houses and architectural firm. And it was wonderful to go in that old Carnegie library because if you wanted to read the Wall Street Journal and i didn't in those days, it was there. If you wanted to read the New Yorker, and I didn't but it was there. But it was a wonderful, wonderful little library and the downstairs was devoted primarily to children’s books and it really became a center for us in many ways for reading and activities that took place at the library. They were very good about scheduling those activities. But as a teenager your primary concerns are of course athletics and scholastic and social life. And it was interesting growing up here as a teenager. There were a couple of centers for your social life. There was the old Y which was just a wooden building on Kansas City Street. It wasn't very much at all. Then there was the Masonic temple on Kansas City Street that many of my friends belonged to both the men and the women. In those days Catholics could not participate in Masonic events so I was not part of that. But the other social centers was the old Hole pool hall down on the corner in the Buell building at 6th and St. Joe Street. �And that is where all the guys went to play pool after school if you weren't involved in athletics or if you were after the athletics and it was really an amazing place. It crossed all class lines all economic lines. You had everyone in there-Native Americans, scholars, you had jocks in there. And it was all guys of course and it was really a fun place to either learn to play pool or snooker. Most people played snooker there. Or else just to see your friends. And it went on for some years and I think it finally closed down. The other epicenter of your social life in Rapid particularly in summer was the Old snow white drive in at the corner of 12th and St. Joe St. The Wright family they were originally from Nebraska.] And it went on for some years and I think it finally closed down. The other epicenter of your social life in Rapid particularly in summer was the Old snow white drive in at the corner of 12th and St. Joe St. The Wright family they were originally from Nebraska came up and they started the Snow White Drive Inn. That twas the place to be in summer. Girl vied jockeyed for jobs there as car hops. My sister was a car hop there in high school for two years. Her friends were too. And that is where all the teenagers went in the evening with their cars. They would borrow their parents’ cars and go down to the Snow White Drive Inn to see who was at the Snow White Drive Inn. And if the Car hops made decent money. I remember my sister in the late 50's some nights making 30 dollars which was a substantial amount of money. So it was wonderful for the car hops because they got to see all the guys and they got to make some money too. But the Snow White stayed on for many years. I think it didn't close up until sometime in the '70's. But certainly from about 1957-1965-66 that's where everyone went. Kim: I hate to interrupt but could you say where was the Snow White? Ron: 12th and St. Joe. Across from the old Swander Bakery which is now the Apple Store. It's gone now it’s just a parking lot. But it thrived as the social center. And if you couldn't find your friends there then you drove up Eighth Street. Now Mt Rushmore Rd. to the end where the A&W root Beer stand was. That was the other place to try and find your friends in summer. And so many miles were put on parents’ cars going between 12th St. and the end of 8th street looking for your friends. And in winter after any basketball game or football game at least from Cathedral High school we all went up to Toscanos Pizza way up at the end of East North Street on the North side. I believe it was a Chinese Restaurant for a while and now maybe a second hand store but that's where a lot of the high school kids and not just Cathedral High school kids but Rapid High kids went afterwards, after games for pizza. And it was a nice environment. They didn't serve beer, it was just pizza and sodas and it was another way to really get to see your friends. Life here was just not complicated at all. We always had Native Americans or Hispanics in our class. You grew up with them and you didn't think of them as being any different than you were. Particularly in a private school like Cathedral High School. You saw how hard the parents of some of those children worked to be able to have them in a private school, a parochial school and you just... there were no distinctions at all absolutely no distinctions. It was just an amazingly simple wonderful place to live. And I had that in grade school and I had that in high school as well. Again I was blessed going to smaller schools where there was more of a sense of family but certainly there was never a distinction. Mike Hudson was Native American. He was one of my best friends and one of the smartest guys in my class. The Solano kids, Alan Solano today is a state senator. His Dad and Mom were a year ahead of me. Smart hard working Hispanic people. So we didn't have the issues you had in major cities and that was a blessing when I left here not to have a prejudice. Not to have any feel for distinguishing between races. That people were just simply people. You worked with them and you enjoyed them. �Kim: I know Alan from other activities. I have worked with him on human resource management. Mike Hudson that you mentioned. Is he still? Ron: He is not here anymore. I believe his sister still lives here. They came up from the reservation sometime in the late 40's. His father was a carpenter but a hardworking man and did very well for himself. They built a nice home out in Rapid Valley. Those kids were so smart. Kim: Off the recording part. It would be interesting to visit with him or his sister. If you could help me. Ron. I will ask my brother. I might... there is one sister in town I know that. They are a handsome family too. I will ask my brother about that. Because it was amazing. There were no distinctions between class or race. ` Kim: I don't want to break any real thought processes here. Ron: I'm just rambling. Kim: As I listen, you referred to the pool hall. The Hole. Now the name of that was that because it was located because it was in the lower level. Ron: Yes, I believe the Potter Family now is using it as a Theatre. But it was called The Hole because you walked downstairs. Parents raised an eyebrow if you told them you were there. But they also knew you weren't going to get in trouble. That nothing bad ever happened there at all. Kim: A little bit of the music Man there. There's trouble in River City. Ron: That truly was one of the places in high school that you always went to. I guess what Rapid City lacked in many ways in those days was the only entertainment you really had at least as a teenager other than do what I did is you went to the movies a lot. The old Elks Theatre, the old State Theatre. The old Rapid Theatre. I know our family we grew up on movies. My parents loved them but as teenagers a bunch of friends, we'd all go to the movies. It was something to do. Kim: I recall the State Theatre I think when I arrived here about 35 or 36 years ago. That's a parking lot now isn't it? Ron: No, That was the Rapid Theatre down at the corner of 5th and St. Joe. (Talking over each other) The State Theater was a wonderful Spanish style building on Main Street. Just on the south side of main. Just beyond 7th. Where they replaced the Sweeney building on the corner. Next to that was the State Theatre. Ok the Sweeny building was the one that burnt down in 98 or 99. Kim: Pretty spectacular fire. Ron: They put up a reasonable facsimile of it. �Kim: And the State Theatre was next to it. Ron: State Theatre was next to it and again it was one of those buildings that 1958 or 1959 they decided they had to modernize and they stripped all the inside was just magnificent because it had these hacienda Mexican style windows with lights behind them. It was like you were in someone’s courtyard. And then they came in and just stripped the place and made it very contemporary in about 58 or 59. Same way goes for the old Belle Telephone building. Kim: Up on Mt. Rushmore Rd. Ron: On Mt Rushmore Rd. Originally very Spanish style in architecture and you can still see just a little bit if you look closely off the alley there and then they just started building around it. . Kim: I'll need to go by and look at that. I think the Rapid Theatre, I am not going to say this for the official record or anything but I think the Rapid Theatre might have been in operation in the late 70's. It seems like I did go to a movie there. Ron: It was originally the Rex Theatre. Where the Rapid now stands and it was sort of the, how do I say this. It was sort of the theatre you went to if you were desperate to go to a movie. It wasn't particularly nice, they always had second run movies. And then someone came in in the late 50's and re-did it and made it competitive with the State and with the Elks Theatre. But for many years it was just 2nd run. The old Rapid Theatre. Of course in summers everyone loves Rapid City in summer. And Sheridan Lake always beckoned as did Canyon Lake. Those were places where you got together with your friends and of course Pactola was just being built when I was in high school and so it hadn't become a center for recreation yet. But certainly Sheridan Lake and Pactola Lake. Sheridan Lake and Canyon Lake were. Kim: Tell me a little more about Canyon Lake because I live a couple blocks away and walk through there every day but I know it’s much different now than it was in the 50's. I remember the Canyon Lake Club over there. Was that something that goes back quite a ways? Ron: Canyon Lake club has been there ever since I can remember. It was just sort of a semi almost log cabinish main building and then they had added a dining room to that. And it always played second fiddle to the Esquire Club on West Main Street which is now the Coldwell Banker Real Estate Building. The Esquire Club... Kim: Was the Coldwell Banker a Spanish Style building originally? Ron: No, it wasn't but Don Hall owned the Esquire Club and it was basically I think an old large residential building that he added onto initially and put a kitchen on the back and they always had a piano player and then they had some floor shows. In those days they had floor shows going around to these small towns. And my parents would take us out to dinner and we would go to the early floor show. And then in about 1964 or 63, Don Hall put a huge addition on that building in particularly the entire south side of Coldwell Banker is where he �put it on and in the front and he probably doubled the size of that club. And it was a busy, busy place. With some... there were always musical acts and they were fine. And the Canyon Lake Club had acts as well but it was a much smaller venue and most of the time to my mind they were local acts. But those were two place I think where adults went for entertainment and then the Embers opened up I think in 1960 on West Main Street where Shooters is now. And that was a Steak House and there was no entertainment there but that became very, very popular. But early on if we are talking about eatery places. The Westwood. On Mt. Rushmore Rd which was on 8th St. between Main and St. Joe on the East Side. It's now some tattoo parlor and something else. The Westwood Restaurant and Bar until Arrowhead Country club came along was truly the social center for successful adults in Rapid City. And I think in those days some movies were being made in Rapid City and you would always the movie stores in the Westwood Restaurant and Bar because I remember my mother and sister going there for lunch and saying they had seen Robert Taylor and so that was the lookout spot I guess for movie stars but it’s really for adults an important watering and dining hole. Kim: So Rapid City for a period of time then was kind of a movie mecca or? Ron: Oh yeah there were several movies made out here. There was one made. Gosh I wish... Tomahawk and it was made in 1949 or 50 and the location of it is at the bottom of the big hill as you come down 16 toward Reptile Gardens. Back to the right is a meadow and they constructed a fort there made of wood, a genuine fort that stood for years even after the movie ceased production and that is where most of the movie Tomahawk was made. Then there was the movie Sitting Bull. It was made over partially in the Hot Springs area and I think Custer State Park. I am not quite sure if there was a set built for that like Tomahawk. And then there was another movie called the Buffalo Hunters. And that is the one that brought Robert Taylor to Rapid City. And that again would have been 1957, 56. I believe somewhere in that area. Those are the three movies I recall being produced in the Black Hills. But it was a big deal because the movie stars they could either stay at the Alex Johnson or they come in and rent someone’s home. And so there were a couple residents over on West Blvd. who would rent their homes out. And so that was in a small town in the 50's that was a big deal. But yeah the Westwood restaurant and bar was very well done, very handsome, well pointed and as I said until Arrowhead Country club came along was probably the epicenter for socializing in Rapid along with the Esquire Club and the Canyon Lake Club. Kim: I kind of like the eatery line of discussion. I like to eat. Ron: I do too. Kim: Harold’s. Ron: Oh that was over on East North St. Kim: Right when I got here, well that was just the place for prime rib. Ron: It was not there growing up. Harold’s was not there. It was later. For downtown dining the other cafe which was always very good was the Dakota cafe which was next door to the old Harney Hotel. And the Harney Hotel was at the corner of 7th and Main and next to that was the Dakota Cafe and that was a very, very good restaurant. But then the Westwood �came along and eclipsed it. There was always a dining room in the Alex Johnson. It was always good and people went there. There used to be the Hilltop Drive Inn on West Main St. which is across which is not Clock tower Plaza. And that was a drive in too which wasn't so much a teenage haunt so much as just a genuine drive-in which had pretty good food. And I don't think we had any Chinese restaurants growing up here. I am trying to remember. I think they were a later arrival. I think we need to bear in mind the School of Mines was a small school at that time and didn't have the international population that it has today. Kim: Yeah that has done tremendous things for the variety of foods in Rapid City. Ron: It really, really has. And of course there was the old Murphy's bar on Mt. Rushmore Rd. right across from the Westwood. Kim: Yeah by the railroad tracks. Ron: No, it was between St. Joe and Main St. on the west side. And that was quite a watering hole. Again I think I never went there, I was too young but from what I've heard it had just a cross section of Rapid City and I know that my father’s payroll checks my mother would go through them every month when the bank statement came and she would note who cashed their checks at Murphys. Because she didn't think that was right. She thought they should have been put in the bank or cashed at the grocery store. And so she always had her eye out for the employees that cashed their check at Murphys. But Murphys... there are other people that could talk at length about Murphys. I can't because I was too young to go in there. Kim: You know it was still on Mt. Rushmore. Ron: Oh yeah it was in there in the 70's early 80's before it was torn down. Kim: For some reason I had a place closer to the tracks but yeah now that ...well let me ... another the Fireside Inn was one place very popular when I got here in 1978 and it just seemed like a house someone had converted to me. Do you have any recollection? 24:34 Ron: Fireside Inn came about sometime after 1969 and I don't think the original one may have been a house but the one I remember when I started coming home from Washington DC was the standalone building that you have out there now. The other dining place that you could go to... of course there were several in the hills. One was Mt. Rushmore. The original dining room in Mt. Rushmore was excellent. Kay Burgess ran it and the food was very, very good despite it being a cafeteria type setting the food was good. Another wonderful place on the way to Mt. Rushmore was the Powder House Lodge which is still there. The food there was very good too. It had a wonderful Sunday buffet. I remember that oh so clearly. So those were two places to dine up in the hills but dining was much different than it is now. It isn't the almost spectator sport that it is today. Kim: It's too close to lunch. Can we stop for a second? �Ron: Sure I am sort of just rambling all over. Kim: You want the recorder stopped? Ron: Yeah. Part 2 Ron: There is an area of Rapid City that is long gone now but growing up it was called Coney Island and it was on Omaha Street east of 5th Street on the north side. Would just be east of where Pressler junction is now where the railroad spur is. Coney Island was a couple of buildings. The street really wasn't paved and it was where we think there was a house of ill repute and if Rapid City had a red light district it was in that area in Coney Island and also I have no way of providing any substance for this but it was people said that's where the block, the negro people lived, was Coney island. But it was always this area that you heard about but you didn't go to even in high school because if your parents found out you were down there they would really be unhappy. But it was perhaps an urban myth and urban legend Coney Island but there were two buildings down there it was dark and I remember we drove through it once with my Dad. He was just showing it to us and it doesn't even seem like the streets were paved right in there but there was a road running between the two buildings and there were red lights outside and neon signs and it just looked like something you would not find in Rapid City in that area and as I said if there was a house of ill repute, whether it was a place where negroes lived in Rapid City, I don't know for sure. But there was a club down there and I believe that was one of the clubs that the Negro airbase personnel went to. Perhaps where the urban legend of it becoming a place where they lived came to pass. I am not sure. But Coney Island was truly some place you did not venture into unless you had your Dad along. Kim: What was the location of that again? Ron: The location was on the North side of Omaha Street, east of 5th street and east of what now is referred to as Pressler junction. That one railroad spur that goes by the grain towers there and it was to the east of there between east Blvd and that area. And there were at least two buildings I recall. And it was just a place. Kim: So was it Omaha that went in between the two buildings? Ron: No, it was another street entirely. Omaha was going to be to the south of the buildings. So there was a street between the buildings and I don't know if that street was plotted or whether if it was just one that became an easement type used. Kim: So it was in between Omaha and the creek then? Ron: Yes, exactly. Between Omaha and the creek. Yeah and it wasn't spooky but it was just a place you didn't go to even as teenagers you didn't go there and explore at all. It may well have started to go away by the time.... �Kim: It was just an area 51 kind of place. Ron: Yeah exactly and I had forgotten all about it until we started talking about that. Yeah it was called Coney Island down there. Who knows what went on there. What did go on there. Kim: There was no Box Elder I guess was there. I think I saw there was something about there was a 50th anniversary of Box Elder of I think coming up which was I think for I think more in the 70's more there were some establishments I know when I arrived here there was a place called Charlies out in Box Elder that a lot of Airmen and NCO's used to go. Ron: The only thing I knew about Box Elder growing up is one of my classmates in grade school, his Dad they had a farm out in Box Elder. And I can still see where that building is today on the south end of Box Elder. If you went to the base, you didn't really worry about Box Elder, you just went in through the main gate. But speaking of the base, there were times when the air force paid its personnel in 2 dollar bills and it was to remind the local community of how much the air base contributed to that economy and so it was at least once a year the air force would pay the soldiers in cash in 2 dollar bills. Also out there in the early 50's say '52 or '53 there were a couple occasions. One was when Dwight Eisenhower came to Rapid City. And there was a parade through town. And I believe it was to dedicate the base and the name change to Ellsworth if I am not mistaken. Kim: I think that sounds familiar. Ron: 1953, but also around that time it was different. The air base used to have an open house every year and you could go out and see the planes. And they would have entertainment and one year they had the male vocalist Vaughn Monroe singing out there and another year they had Les Paul and Mary Ford. And of course Les Paul being the great electric guitarist who just passed away in the last four years or so. But they entertained at one of the open houses out there. So the open houses at the base were always really at least to my mind I was what 8-10 years old at that time, well done. They spent some money on them but I remember Vaughn Monroe being out there and I remember Les Paul and Mary Ford being out there at another one. And that was a big deal in Rapid. Kim: Very much a community event. Ron: Yeah when you had a nationally recognized entertainers there and then sometime in the '50s too in the Sears building there was an event sponsored by Sears and they had the Inkpots and the Inkpots performed in the Sears building on those wonderful terrazzo steps that used to be in the middle of the building. And that was a big deal too for entertainment in Rapid City. And finally on the entertainment thing is in summers Duhamel trading post which was on 6th St. next to where Talley’s is now. They used to have Native American dancers in the evenings and for sure it was Thursday night and maybe Tuesday night as well but for sure Thursday night and that was a huge draw, a huge draw. People both local and from out of town would really be interested in seeing those dancers. And I know the Duhamels have pictures of those dancers. But that was one of the rituals of summer was the Native American Dancers in front of the Duhamel Trading Post on 6th Street. Kim: You mentioned Talleys. Does that have some long history as well? �Ron: Oh that restaurant has been there since I can remember under different names. I think it was the Bright Spot, was it the Bright Spot or was the Bright Spot over on Main St. but it’s pretty much been there since the '40s or '50s. Where Botticelli's is today was Art's Cafe and Pastry Shop. He was a man from East River and had a nice little restaurant in there and wonderful little pastries that he baked as well. And where James Van Nuys studio is today on 6th St. was a Bakery as well and of course we had at 12th and St. Joe the old Swanders bakery there. Which had a retail outlet in front. Kim: Now did they also have a grocery store on 7th? Ron: The Rose Marketeria used to be at the corner of St. Joe and Mt. Rushmore Rd. on the southwest corner. It's today the health food store. But the Rose Marketeria was there forever. And I think it must have closed sometime in the late '50s. Just north of there on the other side of the street at the corner of Mt. Rushmore Rd. and Main Street on the northeast corner was the first Safeway store in Rapid City. And it is now the Dubliner, it’s... I remember its oiled wood floors, you ground your own coffee there and that was the first Safeway store. And eventually they built the first west side Safeway and then later built another west side Safeway and then the south side Safeway and then there was a Safeway on East North but that was our first Safeway store. And of course up Mt. Rushmore Rd. was Hermanson's market which was around until the '80s which was a very good market. But Rose Marketeria and Safeway were big ones and up in north Rapid was the Buy Rite grocery store on Farlow Ave which I think did a pretty good volume too. And that building is still there today too. Kim: Tremendous amount of variety for the size of the town I think. I am surprised at the number of eateries and grocery stores and I think that is maybe one of the results of consolidating the national chains. I think it sounded like maybe then you had more different places to either buy food to prepare or I suppose dining out now there is a lot more variety in that. Ron: Dining out now can sometimes be a homogenized event but you know in those days, if you had the where-with- all, you were just looking for a good steak or a good piece of prime rib. That's what you were looking for and so the places like the Westwood and the Esquire Club, and the Canyon Lake Club, and later the Fireside all meet that criteria. It was a good steak or a good piece of Prime rib. Maybe it hasn't changed that much today. I'm not sure, I'm not sure. But that's about all I have for today. Kim: Well that's fine. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Ron Johnsen transcript Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interviews Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Rapid City Public Library Description An account of the resource Oral Histories recorded for the Rapid City Oral History Project by Rapid City Public Library Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Ron Johnsen Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Kim Morey Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 11:39 Location The location of the interview Rapid City Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview: Ron Johnsen Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 09-10-2014 Subject The topic of the resource Cathedral High School, Coney Island, construction, Ellsworth Air Force Base, historic buildings, historic restaurants, Rapid City, Snow White Drive-in, The Hole Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource signed release to Rapid City Oral history Project on file. Description An account of the resource Ron Johnsen shares memories of his early years living in Rapid City, SD. Born here in 1943, Ron lived in the area until 1969 and then spent 30 years in Washington, D.C. He came back to the Black Hills because he says it is a simple wonderful place to live. Ron spends much of the interview describing various hangouts and eateries in downtown Rapid City, and notes the changes to many historic buildings. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context https://catalog.rapidcitylibrary.org/cgi-bin/koha/opac-detail.pl?biblionumber=290112 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Rapid City Oral History Project Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Rapid City Public Library Language A language of the resource en Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Rapid City, (S.D.) Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Rapid City Public Library Historic Rapid City Rapid City Library Foundation Black Hills Coney Island Construction Ellsworth Air Force Base Historic Buildings Historic Eateries Rapid City The Hole