1 10 1 https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/46614/archive/files/99f668b3daffb048d4805dc43f47d0eb.mp3?Expires=1776902400&Signature=OzxpRK29cq8mEZ3Mne71RPNVNYRe9NZ-DaOsyojUoO7o8zi5-QjM6BspRTbgSCfOywKxTn8Y7ors%7EQ7UDQwVvGIknD1yEFG30O-B2flgtrUvOyZDEtVEIwLBZcvsWaJHOaWYlsoe2wVgv%7EJbz3wyFbMSs-CGc1WIcV4YD00TxFa5DxutBy3qGTuNSvN1%7EX3adWuj6vyFT-nOtPJdGeLgTVrg3MkACJJg0o698a%7EhT9ZBl61%7EbsRHA4b8%7EuOfgcXGKK-gQJYeOaw1gn4QFFrmyOsW2MUIHi%7EnW36C0Fs6A4ER5hLdqiA9yABgyBvBj8YIoy7ti3SENgjB3ryco7BESg__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM b2a81d81092aa076dcd584574c620f11 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Grace Mickelson audio https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/46614/archive/files/9dd8933e4e9c13b795ea20430c82a71d.pdf?Expires=1776902400&Signature=O9YCgR1glgkDVRs6cBTZnbBXsbwekt7dglmiXjLd02UyWNGKx04YBpWDz9rEdiBcugGc963q-46nN7H7c8MddY4rxC%7E7kvhs%7EaN7K7AonLAophNneo0gYFRJGB6ytVVz7pF4z16tPG0NKg%7EBey9jdyktRBA8-O9Y%7EEaIGCQzbOLUzT3BT0LZYSa%7ETvSmu-96T6l4vmLJLZU6FzkNTVBlGEOCDwOA7tcjQf8UxXXdpgBD9-xdfmDtiPWkGquYtW0J-BaKGdFe26X8DGQkGg9NARvMDNTHFwDYX8JWsI6sVd7T-6gkd0tIMdx%7EIg3oDb4a-tMKrRx9GU9PZSB6kbkjLA__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM dd738d82674b63567600fb928c38417a PDF Text Text Bev Pechan: It's July 9th, 2015 and we are talking to Grace is it Mickelson or Michaelson, Michaelson. That's what I thought. Grace Mickelson: Spelled Mickelson. Bev: And this is Bev Pechan and Grace let's start at the beginning. Where you were born, where you grew up. And go from there. Grace: Oh, well that's interesting. I was born in Iowa in 1926 so I am getting pretty old and grew up here and went to school at a church school right there Waldorf college in my home town and then I went down to the University of Iowa and finished down there and that is where I met my husband after the war. When he came back he was a graduate student in the geology department and I was secretary to the head of the geology department working my way through school. Bev: And you're major was what? Grace: My major was math. And I stayed there doing secretarial work to pay for school and after we got married I started right in teaching. So I taught until he finished school. Bev: You taught math. Grace: I taught math. Bev: Tuition was a lot less back then wasn't it? Grace: Right because I was able to work my way through as secretary but it was kind of interesting because John had been in the war and behind the Japanese lines in the Philippines for months and when he came out he was in the hospital in Australia for 16 months and ______ for �16 months and then he came to Iowa. And I didn't know until after engaged to him and one of the professors told me you know they told us from the hospital they didn't know whether he would make it or not. After that experience but we think you helped. (laughter) Well that is a crazy situation. And then when he finished we went out to Washington State and John taught in _______ department at Washington State. For five years but you know we were living on a professor’s salary and starting a family of four and if you don't have any money to buy groceries the last week of the month. So he took a job with Sohio, an oil company. And we traveled the whole west. Billings, Casper, Salt Lake, Oklahoma all those places. We moved 9 times in seven years with the oil company and that is when we decided enough is enough. Bev: And how did you wind up in the Black Hills? Grace: Well because he got a job in the geology department at the school of mines. Back to what he had been doing out at Washington State. And so we came in '61 and I have been in that same little house on St. Charles Street since 1961. It was interesting because when we came to town and I came out here with the four kids looking for a place to live. It was missile time when they were having the missile crisis and there were four houses in Rapid for sale. And so I went shopping with Mr. Washer the realtor and I picked one and he called the office and it was gone. So there were three. Three house s left. Bev: Oh my goodness Grace: And so I picked that one on St. Charles Street and we've been there ever since. Not that we didn't have to double it the first summer. You know with four kids. So and then I started teaching at Central in 1961. When we came here. So that's what I did. Bev: You were talking about your daughter having a horse. And keeping it on Babe Steinberg’s property which she said at that time was out in the country. Describe what Rapid City was like in the 1960's when you first got here from __________. Was it a lot of non-building quite a ways...? Grace: It was. Our church across from South Junior High, that old Faith Lutheran Church there. You know and I think they got started with a group of people that probably built in that area south of St. Patrick on down probably to Fairmont. That area was just developing when we �came. But I know there was nothing south of Fairmont. It was just pasture. Been there done that. But that was after we came if you want me to go on. Bev: Sure Grace: It was after we came because I was just... I was checking to see if I had some dates right. You know I started teaching in '61 and I think when I was home those years with the oil company I was one frustrated young lady with 4 kids. So I really for something to do got involved in the Toastmistress club. I did that in the 50's and I really think to this day my work in Toastmistress for something to do you know and then I joined the National Association of... I had to have something to do. National Association of Parliamentarians and became a registered parliamentarian so when I came here I was president elect of International Toastmistress clubs. When we came here and I served that out and then in '64 by '64 I was elected president of the Rapid City Education Association. One thing just led to another. Bev: Ok but you spent a big part of your life in civic organizations and community service and that sort of thing. Grace: During those years. And then I went right from RCA president to SEA president so I was president of the State Education Association and I was really amazing myself after you called. I didn't remember that I was the first. We had just gone to full time presidents. And I was the first woman full time president which meant I had to take a leave and I'm not going to go into it because it’s not my favorite part of my history but I've got a lot of information on it. That was at the time in '68 when the Rapid City teachers went on strike which is a horrid memory in some people’s eyes but I was on the other side of it serving as an officer here and for the state and getting blamed for lots of things. I looked through my notebook today and I couldn't believe. My God, they got and injunction to make us go back to work. You haven't lived through a strike when you were right in the middle of it. But we did, we did get the right to collectively bargain through the legislature and I served with three men on the first negotiating team and that is where I ran head on into Wally McCullen. You know Wally McCullen the old lawyer. Bev: No, I don't. �Grace: Tough as nails. Wally McCullen. I sat across the table from Wally McCullen negotiating. And then I ran for the Senate in '72 and was elected so I was President of SDEA and in the Senate at the same time so I could push arbitration and negotiations. And then I was appointed to the state constitution and revision commission and Wally was practically the legal advisor. You know he was a sharp old, old enough to be my father I think. But after sitting across from him when we'd get down in Pierre for meetings at the constitution and revision commission and I tell you I couldn't... he just took care of me like I was his daughter. He just protected me every time I… Isn't that interesting? You sit across a table from him and he snapped at me one day because the guys made me take notes so I am taking notes and he's across the table in his law office downtown and he looked over at me and he said... because I'd just been installed in Toastmistresses. Did the president of International Toastmistress Club get that down in writing? And I said yes sir. (laughter) It was funny that I was taking notes. Any way... you don't care about that. But it was my work. I'm trying to get to something. It was my work on the constitutional revision commission that led me to the history and the library because my whole life had been Math and Science. And here I was so while working on that I got one shelf of books on SD History and after that was over with and John was so much more interested in history than I was and I didn't know any history at all. That we started collecting rare books and I've often thought that Bev Pechan’s never seen my library. Bev: I haven't. I've heard lots about it though. Grace: We started collecting like we were nuts. And we went to auctions and we bought boxes of books and picked out what we wanted and brought practically the rest of them down here to Friends of the Library for their book sales and that's what I brought this notebook for because this we really do.... this is my bibliography for my library- 78 pages that I put on the computer because we do have 2,500 volumes of books on SD History. Bev: SD History alone, that many. Grace: No, mostly history. John's real interest was Custer so we've got to have a Custer section and my main interest was the Sioux Indians so I have 10 shelves of those but other than that we have the collections and session laws back to Dakota Territory Days. I mean just junk. Bev: No, It's not junk. �Grace: But you know last week. See my project the week before last cause I use my library a lot all the time. The week before last I was researching for Daryl Schumacher down at City Hall the invitation to the United Nations. They had that the mayor proclaimed a couple weeks ago United Nations Day. And I just went down to his office the next day and told him off because there was nothing in the paper, there was nothing on TV. I read about it the day after. And I thought I would have liked to have gone to that because I've always been intrigued by the material I have from 1945 on that inviting the United Nations here. Bev: It almost made it. Grace: And one of the 5 and it was ____ told me the problems about getting announcements in the paper. It gets harder all the time I guess. So I didn't know about it. I took these two beautiful brochures that I had been thinking about and wondering where can I get more information on that and I was standing at the counter in the mayor’s office talking to the secretary and telling her that I wanted to ask him why did he proclaim was it just a PR stunt or was there something really behind it you know. And I took these two brochures out of the envelope and she said Grace where'd you get those. She said last Tuesday up at Reptile Gardens they told us that they had the only copy that was ever known and it was tattered. Mine are mint. So then I met with Daryl and he shared with me everything he had and I went home and spent several days. I read through this line by line all 78 pages hunting for stuff and I found two. Bev: I have quite a bit of information on that. When I was working on that turn of the Century project for the Rapid City Journal where they had a Rest of the story and then a page from the last 100 years and I did a lot of research and so I went back to the microfilm for the Rapid City Journal and I've got pages and pages of photo copies that I've made of what was in the papers at that time. Grace: Really?! Kim: I know you only worried about after the fact, were you able to determine if Judge Young was involved in this. Judge Young’s Grandfather was Paul Bellamy and he was. You mean was he involved two weeks ago Tuesday? �Kim: Yeah right. Grace: Yes, he was there. He was there. I called up the Journal. The guy that put the story in the paper. Cause I thought it was poorly written. And I called him up and asked him if he was going to do a follow up. And he said no. And I said well why did you write this story what prompted this? Well he was given it as an assignment and he went up there and I said well who was there. There was no notice about it. He said a few reporters. I said how many people in the audience and he said there wasn't any. Well if you don't publicize it what are you going to get. And I had neighbors who I talked to and they said what are you doing and I said well I'm _________ the United Nations. And he'd come in the house and get a kick out of it cause one guy across the street knew nothing about the stratobowl til he came over and I had all my stratobowl stuff laid out for Greta. Greta took my stratobowl stuff and put it on the Knowledge Network. I thought going down to the Journal and doing some research on it. But all Daryl had was 5 little articles with little bylines. Philadelphia, New York, Boston, not much information. Bev: You can't assume what you think people know. Keystone had on the third of July the first time they had like a little old fashioned celebration and so I was there taking pictures for the Hill City newspaper and I got to talking to people and I talked to a family from Rapid City who had relatives from Grand Island and they were there and she said they had no idea living in Rapid City that people actually lived in Keystone. They thought it was just stores. And they knew nothing about the original part of town. And it is amazing how many teachers and students I have talked to where the children have never been to Mt. Rushmore. Grace: Really? Bev: And you just assume that everybody that knows at least something about what's going on but it’s not true and so many things have happened in this small region that had world significance. Maybe more per capita than any other place I can think of and it’s just.... Grace: Well and I'm interested now because I'm cutting those 100 scenes that the Journal started and I cut that out every day and I'm keeping it but I sat down after I saw the first one and tried to make a list of what I thought they were going to do. I got to 55 and then I quit. But then I decided a lot of them were caves and caves I didn't know anything about and I think I've been in one and I didn't want to go in another one but that was my project last week I read two books on caves and one of them I told you was written and I found her as a reference many places. 1898 Owens. Caves of Missouri and the Black Hills. And that is the oldest reference I found anyplace �and it was in my library. So I decided to sit down and read it. Because when I married John, we went right down to the Ozarks to work on his thesis. And I thought well isn't that interesting. I spent a whole summer down at the Ozarks and here's a book all about. So that was my latest project to read two books last week on caves. Bev: Question. When you buy those books like at auctions and sales and things. And I've done this. How many do you actually read? Or do you use them occasionally for a reference when you think about it or how does it work for you. Grace: Well I tell you, I used to read the Indian books and John read Custer. And didn't read historical collections or that but every year since I have been alone I've tried to pick a project and one of the projects I picked was the CCC. Because we had gotten some books at auction. A couple yearbooks actually. I think there only were like 4 and I have like two of them. And I started and I made a notebook for all the places in the hills where they did projects that became recreational areas and then I decided that in addition to the sites that became recreational areas that I wanted to know about reclamation projects but they came later but I have used my books the last 10 years more than you can imagine and pick a project and some projects kind of fizzle. Kim: You say you create your own binders then of information that you collect? You are keeping those in your library currently. Grace: Yeah they are just in... Cause I now have a new one that says United Nations on the outside and I'm going to have one on caves. But I did the reclamation areas and that led me to call the lady down at the bureau of reclamation cause I wanted to know all the reclamation dams starting with Shade Hill and up at Belle Fourche. What's the name of that one? Orman and then there's one over in Wyoming that was on my list ... Keyhole and down to Pactola. But you know I called down to the Bureau of Reclamation. I called every Corp of Engineers office along the Mississippi River harassing them. But when I called down there to see what she had on each of these she said "Grace, I've been over at your house". I got rid of the brand books except a couple so I put them in the paper. I wasn't really interested in brand books. And I put them on the auction at the Stock Show right after John died because I wasn't interested in that. But she said Grace I have material on all of those dams and I asked if I could come pick it up and she said?? She sent me an envelope that big with absolutely fantastic historical and otherwise information on all of those dams and I just put it all in a notebook and sat and read it. It's absolutely fantastic. �Bev Pechan: I was astounded to find out there were ... and I guess they referred to them as prisoners of war that completed the Deerfield Dam when the war broke out it was the Quakers and they were conscientious objectors. They would serve the country but they wouldn't fight. And so they brought them all up here. Grace: Yeah but what war was it? Bev Pechan: World War II. And they completed the dam at Deerfield. Grace: Ok because after World War II the prisoners of war came to my town in Iowa and they worked at the canning factory and that was at the end of our lane. Bev Pechan: Those were mostly Germans. I know a lot of them worked in the sugar beet fields here and ________? talked about having some of the workers on their farm. Grace: Well that's an interesting subject for study. Why don't you do it? (laughter) It sounds like another binder. Bev Pechan: Well it was and they did a lot of the work at Ft. Meade. A lot of the construction. In fact there's still in the sidewalk and then I think there's a block in the wall as you go in the Post Office that says POW and it has their names engraved in it you know. They weren't supposed to be friendly with the local people but a lot of them did make friends. Grace: Yeah and see I was a young girl in high school and my parents were nervous wrecks because they wanted to be friendly. Bev Pechan: I did write a story on it for the Rapid City Journal several years ago now. �Kim Morey: May I ask? You must have a tremendous collection of your own collection of information as you do your projects. Do you have some plan to make that work available to the public at some time? Grace: No, but you know I just blabber. I have been a notebook person all my life. I was president of Toastmistresses in 1968 and they always had a paper folder and I made them do a notebook. I've just been notebook nuts. But it’s so much easier to look at than loose papers. Bev Pechan: I've gone to that the last couple years. It works a lot better. Grace: Yeah I really have gone to notebook. But a few years ago I decided and that’s what I was kind of looking at since you called. I thought I can't even remember when I did these things. Because one place in my bedroom there's notebooks I did in the area of education. You know there's a notebook for when I worked with RCEA and there's a notebook for SDEA. Then there's a notebook that has my Senate fliers on the front. Then there's a notebook that has my picture when I was deputy principle regional official of health education and welfare in Denver. I really decided that it was ridiculous to have. I still have it. File folders and drawers full of loose papers that are just a mess. So I have one that thick of RCA and the negotiating team and the strike and it's amazing and I put it all together and then I had the three guys but Ernie Van Gerpen died. But I had them over for coffee and showed them the book I put together. All the newspaper clippings as we went through the strike and what the schoolboard told us... Kim: It's interesting that you mention Ernie Van Gerpen. I am the chair of the board at Highmark Federal Credit Union. The Rapid City Teachers. The oldest Federal Credit Union in the Black Hills. Grace: Yeah but I got mad at them. I got mad at Highmark after having been there for years. And Ernie I started with Ernie up in his little room up on second floor. You know where that room was? See I taught in the Coolidge building but he was in the main building. I did get promoted because I got over to the other building. But I don't remember what I was mad about because John and I had stuff there for years. And then I got mad and Ernie didn't like it when I got mad but I moved down to Black Hills Federal Credit Union. (laughter) And you know if I get mad I will just get out of here. And I don't even remember what I got mad about. The way something was handled. �Kim: I know we are an imperfect organization. Grace: I know why I left. Because they got rid of Ernie. I know why I left. They got rid of Ernie and it made me mad. Didn't they get rid of him? Kim: You know I don't know that part of the history. I am going to have to look back into that. Grace: You might have to look that up because I remember clear as a bell now but know I am getting old now and it’s hard to remember it all. Kim: I know that we had Ernie back for our 75th anniversary. Grace: Yes, but they got rid of him. There was a clash and plain and simply I left Highmark in a protest when they fired Ernie. Kim: Wow we are going to have to look into that and see if we have some records. Grace: You better study your own history. Kim: Yes, Ma’am. Grace: But I started with Ernie when we first came here and he had a credit union in a little closet up on the second floor of the main building. �Kim: And the vault that we had is still there. They still have the vault that we used when Rapid City Teachers was in what is now Rapid City High School again. They might have done some remodeling so Ernie’s office is kind of like it was here. But we moved that wall or whatever. (Talking over each other) Kim: Over at the high school, the rooms that were the credit union when it was started. The vault is still there. Grace: It's still there. I'll be darned. And that is kind of how I got knowing Ernie and Ernie had been frustrated about teachers’ salaries and his background and I was a math teacher and Harold was a math teacher. And the three of us kind of put our heads together and started a war. You know, and that's kind of how I got I mean one whole summer with negotiations. We practically lived in Ernie's basement over there. Bev: Let's talk about that teachers strike. Go ahead Kim. Kim: Well I live across the street from Wes and Gladys Storm and they mentioned that as well as being a very important point in the history of our town. Grace: I was just amazed even today that notebook is that thick and I thought boy Grace you spent a hell of a lot of time putting this together. But you know it was just loose papers and file folders in my file drawer. It wasn't interesting to me. It wasn't anything I could show Bob and Ernie and Harold and of course I got the whole thing put together and they thought I should make them each one but they could make their own. I didn't because I had used every scrap I had. But that is kind of my education work through going to Pierre and working on ... See the first thing I voted on that was of importance to me was the consolidation of the state retirement system. And I was trying to think of things that were important to me when I was in the Senate. And probably the two most important that you know as long as I live that if you were the prime sponsor of Senate Chart resolution # 1 to ratify the equal rights amendment in 1973. Well I had to take out that big folder the other day and look at all of that stuff and I thought oh my God that's another so there was a folder on the equal rights amendment and we got it passed in both houses in 1973. 23 to about 12 in the Senate and 40 some to 20 some in the house. Then the house actually tried to rescind her actions in 1976 if you can imagine. But they didn't make it. �But it isn't ratified yet. When we kind of quite working 35 states had ratified it and you need 38 and I think that's where it still stands about now. Now the argument is about is it too late to get those last three or was there in Washington legislation was there a time frame. Or do they have to start over. I can't believe that hasn't been ratified can you? Bev: Well politics is a funny business. Grace: But I thought Grace you know. You just forget about things like that you did. That were just my whole life at that time. Cause I've got a folder full of speeches and materials and everybody I contacted in the whole country to get information on the equal rights and the other thing I remember from my work in the Senate was chairing the Senate investigative committee. Now that doesn't tell you anything. Investigative committee. I thought why do we call it the investigative committee. You know what we did. We spent that whole summer because a Judge Adams over in the eastern part of the state had found in a case that he handled that this person had without due process in their rights been committed to Yankton. And if you don't think that I could tell you some stories about a summer of investigating how people put their family members in the state hospital and what really prompted some of us we knew there was one legislator whose wife was there. I don't want to go into that but I've got a whole folder and I've been looking at it. On the investigating committee and I have the laws that we introduced in the next session to change the committal laws for Yankton State Hospital. Now that's important. Bev: Yes it is. It sure is. Grace: I tried to think of you know I thought what they are going to ask me when I go down there. I don't know what in the heck Bev is going to ask me. But in case you ask me what is important, I really worked for a couple days to try and think of things that were really meaningful to me. Bev: Well and I think you forget you have been involved in so many things and you don't always thing about at what point did this change or make a difference. Grace: Or you remember what you are doing now and you forget how important these were in your life. Bev: What led up to the teacher's strike in the '60s? �Grace: It was really teachers’ salaries. Bev: Same as today. Nothing has changed that much. Grace: Nothing has really changed that much and you know I came here in 1961 by that 4200...I don't think the School of Mines was much better. I can't figure out how we even. But then I stop and think sometimes well I also bought the house I still live in for 15 thousand dollars. That will grab you. Not that we can double it back. Kim: You property taxes are probably getting close to that now. Grace: But you have to try to put everything in perspective. But even 4 thousand dollars to teach High school math wasn't much. Maybe there are places where it was worse than that. But I think South Dakota has always been way down. But Ernie's influence on us, because of his work in the credit union and financing and really knowing that the wage was insufficient and I am sure in his work he knew which teacher was coming in to borrow money. I mean I am making that up but as I think back. Why was Ernie, well he better than anybody else in the whole system probably knew the financial condition of every teacher in this system. You know I just figured that out. Bev: That's good that makes a lot of sense. Grace: It's true isn't it? Since you asked me it really was salary. Kim: And Ernie was a leader in the strike. Grace: Right but Ernie was good at putting us three young bucks up to no good. (Laughter) He was another generation and I think when Ernie saw some rambunctious people that were interested in doing something. I know Harold’s interest was salary and they would visit with Ernie and one thing just led to another but those three guys were special friends of mine forever. Harold still checks on me every week to see if I am alive as a result of negotiation. Anyway. �Kim: Was Ernie a teacher and... Grace: Ernie was a biology teacher and he worked in the credit union after school and maybe Saturdays. Bev: I can remember when I was in high school a lot of our teachers took summer jobs you know to make it reach and I know in the early '60's ...well I got married in '57 well we had two children then and I don't remember what we made but it was probably 5-6 thousand dollars a year. Grace: Each or between you? Bev: No, I think between us Grace: See, It makes a difference. Bev: Yeah and the houses. There was one for like 9500.00. That was when track housing started coming in. 9500 was the basic model and the medium one was like 11 thousand and then they had one for like 14 thousand and if you could buy that I mean you were considered pretty snoots. And I had a brother in law that was an over the road truck driver and he was pulling in 10 thousand dollars a year and we thought he was just stinking rich you know. And so it’s just funny how all this changes. I remember when my daughter was born. I was in the hospital with her for three days. It was a breach delivery. The hospital bill was 150 dollars. Grace: Can you believe that? And the Doctor was probably 50.00 Bev: Yeah I think it was. �Grace: Oh my don’t think about it Bev: And they actually gave us like 90 days to pay off the hospital bill and now you can't sneeze for 150 dollars. I am glad I grew up when I did. But you talk to other people that are younger and they have no clue and of course they are not keeping history. You have to go back to read to find out. There are a lot of things I have forgotten about the '60's. Grace: That's why I think my library has just been a Godsend for me for 10 years. And you see I didn't know history. Harold was a coach but a History major and so I would read something what I had decided to research and then... He would know all about it and then he would sit and answer my questions an explain them. It really has kept my sanity. I think in the winter when you are there for weeks on end to have your own library. Cause somebody asked me one day. "Well, where did you find that?" And I said I found it in the South Dakota Guide. "Well where did you get that?" My library. 38:46 Bev: You just never stop learning. Grace: You just never stop learning. But I am going... I am looking at what I wrote here... I will quick go through Kim because I was in the legislature for two terms and I chose not to run but I ran for congress and I ran for congress against my friend Jim Abnor but in a republican state like South Dakota I didn't have a chance. But after the election, in '76, I came home and I called the school because I was on leave, about my job and I wanted my job back at Central High school. But they brought a coach up from the junior high and you know coaches are more important. The male teachers.... but I could teach in any one of the three junior highs but I said I am not interested. And that is when I decided to look. Governor Kneip had asked me to be Secretary of Education and I turned him down because I lived with... this is nasty and I don't mean it to be nasty but I lived with a college professor with a degree and I didn't have a good enough one. So that is when I just packed up my stuff and went over to Laramie for a year and lived in a motel room for a year. '77 to get my PHD. I had gotten my Masters up in Black Hills in the '50's not the '50s because I was on the SCA board because they had a party. That would be the '72. Right I did a lot of things right in the early 70's. But I went over there and it was when I came back you know I decided the one reason I didn't take the job was that I had the proper education and I couldn't be advising college people and other ... that was what bugged me so I was going to get my PHD so that would never be a problem again. And that hasn't been a problem but I haven't used it for anything again. (laughter) But anyway I always tell my kids, education is the one thing no one can take away from you. It's mine. But it was when I came back from Laramie that I decided to go looking for a job so I got the Plum Book and there was and opening in Denver as Deputy Principal A regional official in the department. At that time HEW. It became HHS while I was there. And so I applied for a job under President Carter and I moved to Denver and commuted for three years. You know I commuted. I flew down to Denver Monday morning and �back on Friday afternoon. For three years until Carter was defeated and then I was out. And when I came back I didn't know what I was going to do. But I had met the principle out at Douglas over at Wyoming. We had a class together and when I came back he called me one day. His math teacher had quit and in a week he needed school to start. So then I taught out at Douglas for 10 years until I really retired. Kim: Which principal at Douglas? 42:25 Grace: Woody Jensen. Did you know him? Kim: I didn't. Grace: Woodrow Jensen Kim: I know of the name. I was pretty close friends with the Krutches. George and Patricia Krutch. Grace: Oh right. the Krutches Kim: And of course yeah Milt Kramer is still on our board at Highmark. And Bob Fralick, who just passed away was on the board up until last year. Grace: Well I was like 15 years in Rapid City and 10 years out at Douglas. Kim: Yeah I heard George speak of Woody but I don't believe I ever met him. �Grace: Woodrow Jensen. I was in class with him. Now the last I got a note from him, he's retired but he was teaching up in Montana I think maybe Billings. But after I retired completely from teaching then you know what I did, I ran for city council. Bev: Talk about that a little bit. Grace: God no. (laughter) I don't know what possessed me because I guess I was probably mad about something. Bev: Who was mayor at the time? Grace: McLaughlin. I fought with him too because he was on the board of the state retirement system and I didn't like the shenanigans that were going on to pick up some ______ for him. So I told him so. Anyway I was on the planning commission and then the council. And then I didn't like always being voted down so I ran for Mayor. Bev: Oh you did. I didn't know that. Grace: I was going to bring you one of my brochures. And I got beat. 44:24 I got beat by Jim Shaw. You know he was hard to run against because he had been on radio and his name was so familiar. But the two things of interest from that I chaired the city/county drinking water protection committee. To try to bring septic systems in the county up to.... We got the resolution passed for the city within city limits and restrictions. But I'll be damned when I got down to county commissioners meetings. What do you do if Ken Davis is sitting there on the commission and he's got two septic systems in his property up at Johnson siding and he didn't want any regulations on them? So I got mad and quit that too. Beside the drinking water committee my other interest was the library. Greta came during that time but I thought Laura Neuharth, Laura Hovey, Neubert. Was that her maiden name? Kim: Yeah I don't know. They just hired her for the Foundation. I worked with her a little bit. �Grace: For the Foundation. She left me a brochure. And I read them all and I thought well son of a bitch excuse me but I was reading right here. In 1998 Greta Chapman was appointed library director. In 1999 get this are you listening, a contract was signed with Pennington County bringing Rapid City Public Library services to Pennington County residents and I thought in 1997 I chaired AUW's public policy committee and Cheryl Kandaris and Cathy Johnson Norma Kramer were on my committee. They sat over at my house and we heard the complaints about the people in the county that wanted library services. The three of us circulated the petitions to get that on the ballot. And it was passed that fall. And I thought I wonder if they even realize how they were able to sign a contract for services with the county. Did they even know how that contract came to be? There's not a word in there. And why should there be. We were really a committee of AUW. Public Policy Committee. So out in the garage there is a whole folder with those.... that was really important. So recently didn't I read in the paper the county is kind of reneging? Bev: Yeah they are having a lot of problems. Grace: Well by damn I thought I ought to go out in the garage and dig out that folder and go out and remind them that the people voted on that. In 1997 or 8 Bev: I didn't think it was that long ago but I remember that if you weren't in the county and you wanted to use the library services here it wasn't affordable. It was terrible. Grace: That's right. But here it says she signed a contract and I looked right in between there. Well how do you think that contract came to be? You know what I mean? But they don't know. That's history they don't even know. And the history is so important because after we got the whole thing set up in the end of Oct. John and I left and met our daughter and her husband and went on a heart of Europe tour. So we absentee voted before we went. But the gall sent me a telegram after the election. I gave them the hotel address where I would be that night and I got word over in Austria that it had passed. Is that fun?! Is that fun? It's almost unbelievable isn't it? That you could have that much fun. The people at the hotel were all confused. How could this lady be getting this kind of telegram. You know, the gals sent it to me. That's my story and there's not a thing in here. I don't know. Can I go home? Bev: I want to digress just a minute �Kim: Sounds like Bev's not going to let you go home yet. Bev: This is off the track of what we were talking about but I am very curious. What was your husbands take on Custer? How did he feel about him? Did he think he was a good guy or a lunatic or what? What was his thinking? Grace: If I told you what I thought he thought I would be ________ because he read his books and I read mine and we didn't really discuss but just off the top of my head I think he thought I was kind of foolish some times. 49:48 49:48 And that’s just a far away because I have no reason for saying that but he did read. Bev: Well I am just wondering because I learned a lot about him at Ft. Meade. And I have been reading a lot about him. Grace: Didn't they think he was kind of foolish? Bev: Well, It depends on who you talk to. They weren't enamored of him. Well some were some weren't. He had so many enemies that I think were more jealous than anything else. And had their own. In fact I was just reading there is a new book out and I've got it at home. I checked it out at this library so I better bring it back but if you get a chance to read it, it's kind of fun. It's Bill O'Reilly and I forget the authors name now put out this book on. It's supposed to be true tales of the old west and they’re supposed to be setting history straight on a lot of things. And it is so full of mistakes that you can't believe it. And I'm really tempted to write them letters. There's a chapter on Wild Bill. They had him killed at Nutter and Man saloon well it was Null and Mans. They had the names wrong except... and then he did some really shall research on Custer. But I found that my interest in history and I love a good story and I guess that's why I kinda get into some of these things but people pick their heroes like they do baseball teams. And they can't really tell you why. Grace: For various reasons. �Bev: Yeah they either like the color of the uniforms or they like who the coach was and it doesn't matter what facts you can throw at them they are not going to change their mind because that is who they are for or against you know. But I've got my own thoughts and I thought someday it might be fun to write something from a woman’s perspective because I first of .... Grace: And you know I've got 4 full shelves of Custer. Bev: My thought it 1. He had attention deficit disorder which they didn't know what it was back in those days. But he was very hyper and had all this energy. And then they talked about him and political ambitions and I know we hate politicians and one of the things that was in this Bill O'Reilly book was you know when he went to the Little Big Horn just before that he had been to Grant and had been on this Committee because they had this Indian ring in N.D. And he needed to testify. Well it turned out the head of the Indian Ring was Grant's brother. And so Custer told us like it was and of course that was not popular and so Grant says you’re not going with your men, you're going to stay behind it's your punishment. And he said these are my guys I've got to go. So what a lot of people don't know is that when he was on his way he finally relented and let him go but he was not in charge and so he accompanied the men but he couldn't you know and I've got to find it again because I have a copy of the Deserette News, Salt Lake City from 1877. There was an interview with Reno. After the talking about the Little Big Horn, Custer in general and so forth and he said that every once in a while he couldn't stand it because he felt like he needed to be taking care of his men and he couldn't do it so every once in a while he would just go what they call war whooping and he would just go tearing off somewhere and you know just run off some of the energy. But just several things that I came up with, with him. And I thought well yeah this is I am sure what he was about he had ADD and probably a few other things. Grace: Well I don't think you are going to convince me. Bev: Well I don't know. Grace: (inaudible) Had some pretty neat books. Bev: Yeah I bet you do. �Grace: I have some pretty neat rare books on that stuff. But I was never interested in it but John just read. But other people ask me things about John that they tell me that he told them. But you know after his experiences behind the lines and then 36 months. When we started going together. I thought I got to get out of this arrangement. You know he relived that whole experience. And I thought I can't stand to listen to any more of this. You know and all of the sudden after two or three months. When it was all out of his system he never ever brought it up again so in my family room I have three shelves that are Johns and they were all about different wars and he would read those like Let them Eat Stones and They Fought Alone and he's got some autographed ones there from people. Well that was one of the first things I did after John died I thought what do I do with those three messy shelves. And I thought well Grace you don't know a thing about any of those wars. So I took them out and put them on the floor in the family room and I sorted them by war. And I thought that's how I got questioning my friend Harold. I didn't know this happened in this war. And then he would tell me. Well the whole top shelf is about the war in the Philippines but then I put the other wars in order and that winter I read 31 of them. I made sure I read 11 books out of that top shelf and I thought boy I'm glad I didn't know this before.. I am glad he didn't talk about these atrocities that happened but once he told me the whole thing and got it off his chest his but he would read and I'm sure and the reason that I am so (inaudible) probably what started me deciding I ought to know something about every war we have been in and I couldn't find anything about the Vietnam war. I thought but then I read the introduction to The Best and Brightest and it covered the Vietnam War. I guess I decided that I wanted to understand that part of history but the whole top shelf is about the war in the Philippines. And I read 11 of them. I read enough that I thought I understood what he had been through and I was glad that once he got it off his chest we didn't spend the rest of 56 married years re-living the war. And all I can figure out is I just got the (inaudible) so he got it off his chest. Bev: So many of them just couldn't talk about it. And I've talked to several who’s (inaudible) so he got it off his chest. Bev: So many of them just couldn't talk about it. And I've talked to several young men that their Dad's had been in the war and they couldn't reach them emotionally. Grace: And I know I remember what slipped my mind. Three weeks before he died we have a pass through window from the kitchen to the family room that we added on. And he was sitting in his chair out there three weeks before he died and all the sudden I heard him get up out of that chair. And he said I got to go up on that hill and rescue my partner. And I thought oh my god he is 83 years old and he's still living the war. I couldn't believe it. I just thought Oh my God he is sitting there dying and he is still re-living the war. �Bev: I have a friend in Keystone whose husband was in the Philippines. He was over in the jungles anyway and he is 86 or 87 and he still wakes up swinging at night. Grace: And after John died my son asked me. This is really personal but we're talking about it. He said Mother, Did Dad really throw you out of bed twice? I didn't think anybody knew that but me. That was once at the University of Iowa. The first year we were married and he was having some kind of a flash back. My God the next thing I knew I was on the floor. But I never told my kids or never told anybody. But after he died he had actually told his son that. I guess it bothered him. Well I think I was pretty understanding from day one 58:52 Cause Dr. ______ was the one that gave me a clue of what I was getting into when he found out we were engaged why he told me that the doctors at the hospital didn't know whether he would make it or not make it. Bev: Yeah I don't think we can have an idea the tortures. Especially the mind torture that people go through if you are not accustomed to war and killing and seeing people. Grace: And why are we sending all these young kids over there to get their legs blown off and stuff like that. I have no idea Bev: Wars are profitable. Grace: But that's right. Eisenhower said Bev: The industrial military power Grace: Anyhow I don't know what you guys are up to. What are you doing this for? What are you going to do with this junk? Kim: We are going to put it where people can find it. �Grace: Well how do you know they want to know it? Kim: I don't. But I know if we don't capture it, they can't know it. Grace: Boy there is so much the kids don't know isn't there? ` Bev: Yeah and they are talking history all the time and it does tend to repeat itself. It's just I think well which is why we started the history conference too is we just knew not everybody was not going to write a book about their life and they had stories and if we didn't get it somehow it would be lost and thats why we did the books. Grace: Cause I love going to history conference and I love reading but I just have never but I just never had a ____ of eyes to write anything down. I keep worrying about the history conference. In All the years I love to go and hear everybody else’s papers but I just... I can put notebooks together. Bev: You certainly have a lot to talk about. Grace: I can put notebooks together and I amaze myself and even sit there yesterday and today and think oh my gosh we did all this stuff Bev: Well you did 50 years in education and that's a half century. And if you look at, you talk about what was pushing the strike to happen and what is going on today that part hasn't changed much. You know education has but the things that we are teaching, the way that we are teaching. I ______ they don't teach writing anymore Grace: Actually in addition to education, the opportunities I had on the Constitutional Revision Commission learning from guys like Wally McCullen you know. �Bev: That would be a good paper. Grace: So between I keep thinking but why am I talking about what we did in education but then 30-40 years in politics alongside education but actually when I look way back I think what learned in toastmistress clubs about conducting meetings and organizing. That's what my friends say. Grace you organize everything. Well they don't organize anything. You know. But I think I learned some of those things in the parliamentary. I wouldn't have become a parliamentarian. So I just cringe when I go to meetings but I try to keep my mouth shut. Bev: It all has a plan Grace: Anyway, but in all the time you talk because I don't know what you are interested in but I keep thinking I also raised 4 children and that's pretty important. Bev: It is and I think that the observations Bev: It is and I think that the observations I think that you may have had raising them over the years. What it was like then compared to today society today is a lot different that it was back then. Expectations were a lot different. All those things are history. So you know Ernie. I just got to meet him once very late in his life. Grace: Yeah Ernie.... Kim: I had no idea. Grace: I went to his funeral. And that's why I left Highmark. It took me a minute. Cause I thought there must have been a reason I left. Kim: I definitely want to go back into our archives. �Grace: Look and see when my account disappeared and you will get an idea of the year. Isn't that funny. Now what are you over there? Kim: I am the board chair. The chairman of the Board of Directors. Grace: Why are you there? What's your work? Your profession? Kim: At Highmark? Oh, My profession I'm.. that's a complicated question . Grace: How'd you get on the board over there? Is it a wrong question? No Kim: No, not at all wrong. No, No. I retired from the air force in 1991. Grace: Ok I retired from teaching. Kim: and I started teaching for Black Hills State and that got a little... I taught business classes. Writing and Human Resource Management primarily. I talk a little bit of accounting. I got a little bit bored with teaching. I got tired of seeing all these students come in, brand new and fresh and graduate with their new bachelor’s degree and more came in and graduated with their new bachelor’s degree and I was still there doing the same thing so I quit teaching and went out to work. I had an opportunity in the telecommunications industry to help build up the network that we have now that supports all the internet that goes all over the country. Grace: What company did you go to work for? Kim: It was a company out of Bozeman Montana. �Grace: Out of Bozeman Kim: I kept my home here but I traveled all over the US building the fiber optic network Grace: Where did you earn the wherewithal to do that work? Kim: In my air force career, I learned some of the construction Management and technical skills needed. And when I got tired of traveling doing that and at the time of the turn of the century when the telecommunications and technology bubble bust occurred. I volunteered to quit going out so much and I stayed around Rapid City and I did some underground utility work to keep myself busy for a while. Because I learned that in the telecommunications business I did. Then I took a job as a program Development director at Western Dakota Tech and created several of the new programs out there and ended up as the assistant president until Governor Daugaard did the across the board %10 cut and I've always been a strong believer that if she cut 10% it’s got to come 10% from this segment and 10% from that segment and I was the 10% from the executive staff that got cut. Since then I've just kind of been drifting. Doing things I enjoy. Grace: But as a member of Highmark you decided on your own to run for office. Kim: When I was approached and I do have expertise in Human Resource management and I do some consulting in that as it’s available and the Board likes to maintain... we have some people that have expertise in accounting... Grace: But as President of the Board right? Is that a full-time job? Kim: It's a volunteer postition and I probably put in 10-20 hours a month maybe. Sometimes more like 40-50 hours a month. �Grace: Right I can believe that cause I looked and watch and see who runs with the board of directors at Black Hills Credit Union because I know most of them. You know. And when I go down to city hall it’s frightening because you know the head of the water dept. I taught Algebra. Jerry Wright who just... Well I had Jerry in my Algebra class and then John had him and my Dr. Dr. Zintars son I had him and if I go up to the other clinic oh gosh every place you go. I can't believe it. The number of students that I have had. Kim: I was at a reception at Cheryl Chapman’s house last night. Grace: Ok, yeah, really? Kim: And I am also on the Board of Directors for Historic Rapid City which is my connection to the Oral History Program. And we are also working on the McGillicuddy House ��� Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Grace Mickelson transcript Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interviews Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Rapid City Public Library Description An account of the resource Oral Histories recorded for the Rapid City Oral History Project by Rapid City Public Library Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Grace Mickelson Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Bev Pechan and Kim Morey Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 1:08:45 Location The location of the interview Rapid City Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview: Grace Mickelson Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2015-07-09 Subject The topic of the resource Black Hills State University, Book Collecting, City Council, Education, General George Armstrong Custer, Local History, Politics, Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder, Rapid City, Rapid City Education Association, Rapid City Journal, Rapid City Public Library, Rapid City Teacher's Strike, SDEA (South Dakota Education Association), Senator, South Dakota Legislature, Stratobowl, Toastmasters International Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource NO WAIVER on file Description An account of the resource Grace Mickelson spent several decades in politics and education in SD along with raising 4 children. She credits Toastmasters International with some of her public success and organizational skills as president of the SDEA and a Senator. She takes great pride also in her personal library containing around 2500 items. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context https://catalog.rapidcitylibrary.org/cgi-bin/koha/opac-detail.pl?biblionumber=290139 Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Rapid City Public Library Language A language of the resource en Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Rapid City, (S.D.) Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Rapid City Oral History Project Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Rapid City Public Library Historic Rapid City Black Hills State University Book Collecting City Council Education General George Armstrong Custer Local History Politics Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder Rapid City Rapid City Education Association Rapid City Journal Rapid City Public Library Rapid City Teachers' Strike SDEA South Dakota Education Associati South Dakota Legislature Stratobowl Toastmasters International