1 10 2 https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/46614/archive/files/e22c927e4fb3fc381881bfeef68f17bc.mp3?Expires=1776902400&Signature=jw%7EHpsvDrXXFMWDrQyrJXi6wGmiULTyfM-BWvil%7E440f6AKK8%7EffDK1lbhWNDutoIRp1FwyAT40pn0zrGJNH7HyFkqKSrUiutVBc6hLne%7EmWFKg64bs6jZnTu1eovC91BENwc8o7sHqo7qcw4gfItRdxuVLhn00PuUnP8LdSwKdrtlqfavPS3Bn-LmOV5Mp114hbJdtB3CP82gruTravvtBIQucqVJYVMmscNiickXok-eGwC5b4rgPaVoIJb%7E8wzLfO%7EI37dDYEk-4PwY4i9DuoW3MTKbJCqD-%7EWjEeMXVUmTi6%7EjRjbkQo5YakxxsJByI-DrHJnPoWwjpJ8cOtXg__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM a71bca0dd9a6a4adf40d7a87f4be1767 https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/46614/archive/files/39c935bb1891753601dac9eff9ca5284.pdf?Expires=1776902400&Signature=UAizTgJE4nHyiEdge2SmMo8Yzm21H43pcGMUeml3snbxOwdSV1ILHcJQDQA-P%7E0LhpGAtNSoQMWnXPM5zwwrskxGQWR4OeyskLv8v5X6%7EFbHqUQZ9LH0R8i8wjv%7E1WMvJ-rUFNaqqg9OEKVMmBEHiChau0Gi4uEp1Uk8JmNgG0vSa-PuxS3sXtkP78XMZh8HbMszoCaJEibIw9DYJzEoQaMKOSr%7EhAHBfls57MFhvfEdSWEML42uE3jFtJehNoTR%7E8666qhXLGCO0kdz1XIJax9-nzuLFRBZRGv34IJEZ3GaBmtr025vpORGSIqsUDgRFas2xTxedHcwzlmVoCpCPw__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM 28a6d2ea7fc6772c48ac5ef53b130408 PDF Text Text KIM: I am Kim Morey, and I am recording an interview with Wes and Gladys Storm on March 6, 2015. Would you start for me, please? WES: Where would you like to start? I moved to Rapid City in 1950 from the eastern part of the state, and I finished 9th through 12th grade here at Rapid City High. I went on to Black Hills Teachers' College, got a teaching degree, and came back and came into the system in 1958. I started out in grade school P.E. at a couple of schools, Wilson and Tallent. I moved to South Middle School, or South Junior High then, in 1960 when it was built, opened that school and stayed there until 1969. In 1969 Stevens High School opened up, and I went to Central to teach P.E. at Central for, it must have been, four years. In 1974, girls' athletics came into being, and I was a junior high activities director for those schools. That lasted for a year, and then I went to Stevens High as the athletic director there from 1975 to 1980. I enjoyed it; it was a good school. In 1980 I moved to West and was principal at West until 1996. Then I got smart and retired. That's my career since I moved to Rapid City. I came here as a farm boy from a country school of about 90 students, K-12, to the high school here. We had 236 in our class, so it was quite a change for a while. It was a good change, but a different one, coming out west and just a different view. KIM: You mentioned that the girls' athletics started in 1974? WES: They were sanctioned by the state then. It was really Title IX that said you will have girls' sports, and you will have equivalent to what boys have or at least to start. So the first few years, we had girls' volleyball, basketball, and track, and they added gymnastics, or maybe they started gymnastics. They only had four, at least, and then they went with cross-country and just kept adding on there, but at least it was a start to where girls had a (inaudible). Before that they had girls' basketball and volleyball, but it was called GAA, Girls' Athletic Association. After Title IX came in, the feds said you will have girls' sports, girls' athletics, on an equal basis so that kind of started that. KIM: So there were athletics, but they were separate. WES: More of the intermural type. They might go out of town for a match or have a match in town, but not like we do now where you travel to different places and have competitions, leagues and standings. Before it was more of a play day, just a recreational deal, and all of a sudden the feds say you start having competitive teams, and you just go on from there. KIM: I'll have more questions for you, but, Gladys, you're a native of this town. GLADYS: I am a native of this area. I was born in a home on West Boulevard where there were midwives, never in a hospital. The Donner(?) Ranch, out north of Rapid City on Elk Creek near Black Hawk. I went to a country school and also came to Rapid City High School. I can't remember how many were in our class, but there were, I think, over 300, quite a switch coming from a country school to a high school. I had a great four years at Rapid City High School, and then I went on to Black Hills. At that time, you could actually teach on a one-year certificate, so I went to Black Hills, got my first year certificate, and then stayed and got my two-year certificate. Wes and I were married. We were both going to teach in the Rapid City Public Schools, except Rapid City Public Schools would not hire a husband and a wife. Wes was hired in the Rapid City Schools in 1958, and I taught at Black Hawk, which is the school I went to, because it was a county school. The other thing about the Rapid City Schools in 1958 was they paid men $500 more a year, just for being a male. That didn’t last too many years, and the women changed that. Then I went from Black Hawk to Cleghorn, which was also a county school. I stayed there for five years. Wes went back to �Brookings and got his master's. I taught there, and when I came back then Rapid City Public Schools would hire both a husband and a wife. And I think one thing that you need to mention is that, I can't remember what year it was, but you worked full-time for the Rapid City Schools and part-time for Rapid City. It was a wonderful joint job. KIM: Was it actually parks and recreation? GLADYS: Yes. WES: I ran parks and recreation from 1969 to 1974. I would teach until 1:00 and then go work at the rec office, which worked out pretty good, because you had control of the school gyms, and you could open it up to do the activity for the kids for playgrounds. Everything worked out quite well. If you live here, as you know, from October 30 until March 30, you have to play indoors. It's cold, and you have to find gyms which seemed to work out pretty good. KIM: How long did that last? When you left in 1974, was that the end of that relationship? WES: Yes, they hired a full-time recreation director who came in at 8:00 and stayed until 5:00. It kept on going, but it had never been quite as open as we had before. They all want gym space, and it's a tight thing to find and kind of control from there. KIM: I know South and West...I'm not sure about North. WES: Both have annexes; both have big gyms. KIM: That's intended to kind of fill that need? WES: The City built them, and the school maintains and runs them. The school has authority over those school gymnasiums from 6:00 in the morning until 6:00 at night. Then the City can take control, so the City runs women's volleyball, men's volleyball, and men’s basketball leagues in the gyms at night. Most of them now are run from 6:00 until midnight or 11:00. The gyms are a needed space, and it works out pretty well. GLADYS: And I can tell you how they came about. Wes had read about community gyms in California. WES: One would build them, and one would pay the bill for them. GLADYS: So we were in California on a trip, and we came to a sign that said "Such and such a town fifty miles away." Wes said, "We're going to drive over there." I said, "Why are we driving over there? That's fifty miles away." "Well, I read in the parks and recreation magazine that this town had built community gyms, and they were very successful. So I want to go see how they work." KIM: That was a part of your time on the school board? WES: Yes. KIM: Have you been involved in government other than the school board? �WES: No, not really. I had two terms from 1999 to 2002, and then we took a cruise in 2006 and, at that time, I didn't like what the school board was doing. I said on the cruise that I didn't like it, and I complained. We got home in the fall, or at Christmas time, and she said you either be quiet or run for the board. So I went back on the board from 2007 to 2010. That's my last run at it. It's good community involvement. I wish it would go back to a five-member board. Now it's a seven-member board, and they're elected by seven areas of the city. I don't perceive that as being good, because each person tried to work for their area for a new school, a new playground or more benefits. I think when you have five members elected across the city that didn't have or didn't own a part of the city, it was more give or take. I think with time it gets to be east versus west or north versus south, and I don't think that's the best for our school district. They've talked about going back to it, but nobody yet has called for a vote. I think it's something they should think about. I should go back and say that in 1961, 1962 and 1963, I coached legion ball here in town. I worked with city rec when I was in college, and I just kind of followed through that. It was good to have young kids when you're at a time in your life when you can spend the time and do it. When you work with different groups, whether it is legion ball or hockey or youth basketball, it does take time to do it. KIM: Did you precede Dave Ploof then? Was that Post 22? WES: It's BP. Before Ploof. There was one person in between us, Sam Collins. He took it in 1964. I went to graduate school, was gone, and Sam took it for a year. His son, Dave Collins, played for California, played for the Yankees. It was one of those deals. GLADYS: And Dave was your bat boy. WES: And Dave was my bat boy back in the time. So when I came back in 1965, I chose not to go back to it. GLADYS: But also, you took, or your team took, the first state championship in 1961 and 1962 and 1963, and it was a tough decision not to go back to coaching it. WES: It was also a good one. I mean, it's a good program, and Rapid has been very good at it. Ploof had a long run for 35 years and did a tremendous job. The new kid we have now, Mitch Messer, is young, he's ready to go, he traveled with the team, and he had the indoor play. If you like baseball, it's very, very good. GLADYS: Also in 1966 when we came back, we had our son, Shad, and you didn't want to spend all that time on baseball. WES: That's right. It kind of changes your perspective a little bit when you come back from grad school, if you wanted to go on and progress in the school; you kind of had to work toward a master's on that and work into administration. It was really kind of hard to do both of them, so I chose to go the other route, and it's been good ever since. KIM: Gladys, did you mention what you taught? GLADYS: No, I didn't. I have taught everything from preschool, all elementary grades, and I retired as a sixth-grade science teacher from Southwest Middle School. I was fortunate enough to open �Southwest when they opened the new school there and had the middle-school concept, which was very good. KIM: Did you have a favorite? GLADYS: No, I didn't. I think kids are great, whatever age they are. I always changed either grade level or schools every five years, because it made me a better teacher. So I've taught in several of the schools in town. KIM: I've been in town forty years or so, myself, but it didn't take me long to learn that there's eastern South Dakota and western South Dakota. It doesn't take too long in Rapid City, either, to learn that there are two sides to the gap. Is that something, in your perspective, that's been that way for... GLADYS: You know, I don't remember it in high school. I don't remember the city being split like north-south, east-west. I just remember it totally being Rapid City, and it was very well united. Now it could be because we only had one high school. That could be part of it, I don't know. WES: Now we have four with Christian, St. Thomas More, Stevens and Central. That does split up some of the city. We have five middle schools, and that splits up, too. You have kids from two schools going to Stevens and three going to Central. Then you have St. Thomas More which seems to gather kids from anyplace around and across the city. Rapid City Christian now has grown from a small school to maybe 200 kids. It's still small, but it grew from 40-50 kids 9-12 to 200, which is a big leap for them. GLADYS: I also probably have a different perspective on the high school than Wes, because I lived out in the country, and I would come to school in the morning, time to start, and I would leave and go home after school. I didn't participate in a lot of the extra things at all because of that, and I know Wes participated in a lot of the things, so he has a different perspective on it than I do. KIM: Did they have a bus service for you? GLADYS: No. We carpooled with neighbors around us out there. KIM: And how far did people come to come in to Rapid? GLADYS: It would have been north of what is Black Hawk now, north of Black Hawk. Of course, there weren't very many houses in Black Hawk at that time, because Piedmont had its own high school. My sister graduated from Piedmont High School. She's two years younger than I am. WES: And the base didn't have a high school, because the kids from the base came in. I think Ellsworth opened up a high school in 1965, 1966, maybe, which kind of changes. Their kids went out there. They went to their own school. The base was five times bigger then, so you had more kids that you could draw in from all across the states. That really made it different. KIM: How was St. Thomas More? Is that relatively a new school, I guess, then? Has it just grown a lot at some point? �WES: It used to be called Rapid City Cathedral, and they were on Fifth Street across from Central in that gymnasium there. They had the school behind there. In 1972, when Coolidge burned, we had some of our high school classes in back of the Catholic Church and used some of the spare rooms there for a year or two until they had Stevens High. Rapid City Cathedral were still going, let's see, Dutton played for Rapid City High School, or he went to St. Thomas More John Dutton did, or he went to Rapid City Cathedral, and he transferred to Rapid City Central High in about 1958 or 1959, because he was an all-state basketball and all-state football player. He went on to college at Nebraska and was an all-American. He signed with the Cowboys and played there for about eleven or twelve years. Dutton was the last big athlete to come from (inaudible), and it had to be about 1961 or 1962 that St. Thomas More became a school of their own across from the hospital now. KIM: They've definitely become quite the powerhouse in athletics in their division. WES: Yes, I think you're right on that. I think they have a chance to move around and see a lot of athletes in the city that could be enticed to come to their school. In fact, a couple of their starters this year…one came from Custer and one came from Vale. The St. Thomas More girls have been better as far as athletic teams. The St. Thomas More football team has been stronger in the last five or six years. Their basketball team has been very respectable. The girls have been very good the last few years. They look at a lot of our schools at the 7th, 8th and 9th grade levels. Sometimes it's more enticing for a student to go from East Middle School to a smaller school to play right away than go to Central where's there's 2000 kids instead of 400, as far as their chance to play. That's smart on their part, really. GLADYS: When did St. Martin's come into being? WES: The grade school? GLADYS: No, they also had a high school out there a long time ago. WES: That had to be right after Cathedral. GLADYS: That's what I thought. I don't know how long they had that. WES: Now their grade school is out there. I think 1-6, I believe, because middle school or junior high is across from the hospital now. GLADYS: You might want to talk a little bit about Central and Stevens when they split, because they had half-day school. WES: Stevens opened in September of 1970, and they had Central High students go to Central High from 7:00-12:00. At 12:30 Stevens’s kids came in and went from 12:30 to 5:30, until they had the school open. That lasted for almost a year, the transition time. That was a tough time, because they had the new school out west, and they didn't know how to split the schools up. They gave kids a choice the first few years to go. Skyline Drive is kind of the separation point for kids to go, but with the open enrollment, if you want to switch schools, you can. It's not supposed to be for athletics, but you can do it for any reason. If they have a class they want to go to, they can go there. It works out. It's a little different. Central is about 1900; Stevens is about 1500, as far as student body-wise. GLADYS: And now the third public high school is our old Rapid City High School. �WES: An alternative school with about 400 kids there, 9-12. GLADYS: And it has been redone, and I'm very thankful that they have kept as much of the originality of it as they have. WES: Right, the city and school went together and did that, the last three years. KIM: Was it Coolidge and Washington, or just Coolidge that burned? WES: Yes. Washington was a grade school right next to it, and that burned enough to where they had closed it down. KIM: And that's right behind where Rapid City High School is? WES: That fire started and burned that down. KIM: Were you in school then? WES: Yes, I was teaching at Central at the time. KIM: When did that happen? Was it in the evening or overnight, or was that during school hours? WES: It burned at night. I think it was in October. I think that's when it was. I know it was partly in the wintertime, because it was cold. They closed school for at least a week or so to kind of get things straightened out. Then Cathedral had room across the street, and they moved classes there. They had classes in the auditorium and in the gym. Then they built that extra gym on the east side of the school, so they could use the old gym for classes for a year or two. KIM: Do you recall the year? WES: 1972, I'm pretty sure. GLADYS: I don't think so. I thought it was earlier than that. Another thing. I wasn't teaching in the public schools then, because I couldn't. It was the teachers' strike. It was the first teachers' strike ever in South Dakota, probably the only one ever. WES: Right. They had that in 1972. GLADYS: I don't know the year. WES: I'll have to look at that. I don't know. 1969, maybe? GLADYS: Yes, it was in the sixties, I'm sure. WES: 1969. That was it. We went out on strike and had our meetings at the old City Auditorium. Chuck Lindley (?) was the superintendent then. He's still back in town now; he was here. I don't know if you know Chuck or not? �KIM: I served on the Salvation Army Board with him for a while. GLADYS: He was the superintendent, I remember, when that strike went on. That was really a hard time for everybody in Rapid City, for Rapid City itself, not only education. KIM: Was there a disruption of the schedule then? WES: Yeah, they didn't have school for, I really can't think, how long. GLADYS: It was a short time that they didn't have school. WES: I'd say seven to eight days. Then the court had a court order saying you go back to school, or you'll be placed in jail, so everyone went back to school. But that was kind of a long, that was a tough year for students, parents, teachers, everybody. GLADYS: And you mentioned the old City Auditorium. That is where you had your office. WES: For City recreation, and that's where the Dahl Fine Arts Center is now. It was a real prize building at the time, a very nice old, old building, but very usable. GLADYS: And played intermural basketball. WES: Played intermural basketball, city league basketball. Yeah, they had boxing tournaments, concerts. It was just a small auditorium. KIM: And then it was taken down for the... WES: Dahl the 9th edition? So it's the Journey, all of those. Then the Dahl bought the gas company's building right next door, so they have the whole block or half a block, I guess I'd say. GLADYS: And you remember downtown Rapid City much better than I because, like I said, I came to school and went home. KIM: When did you move into Rapid, Gladys? GLADYS: It was in 1959, because our first year I taught at Black Hawk, and we lived out there. So we moved into Rapid City in 1959. WES: On West Chicago and that was just where it stopped. There just wasn't much past West Chicago at the time. The city has probably grown more east with Rapid Valley and south. There hasn't been much north growth. There is some across from the mall now, way up there. Of course, west of town Red Rocks is kind of a place by itself. GLADYS: What I remember about downtown Rapid City is the Alex Johnson. To me the Alex Johnson has always been there, and it has, in my lifetime. And the Elks Theatre. WES: Yeah, the Elks Theatre. There were a couple more...the State Theatre and the Rex Theatre. GLADYS: And the restaurant I'm trying to think of that was downtown? �WES: Bright Spot? GLADYS: Yes, the Bright Spot Cafe. WES: Houk's (?) Sporting Goods used to be right uptown. GLADYS: And Penney's, of course, and Sear's. WES: All the major ones were uptown then. I think that when I moved here, in 1950, there were about 23 or 24 thousand in the city. Signal Heights wasn't there yet. It was a dream at the time. Bought that and built it up, all duplexes. This was new to the city. The hospital was built. It used to be Bennett Clarkson, and then they went to the new hospital. GLADYS: First it was just St. John's. St. John's Hospital, and then Clarkson was built. WES: St. John's Hospital was on Ninth Street, and then Clarkson was built out west. That was in the sixties, and then the new one. And you moved here, Kim, when? KIM: 1978. WES: 1978. Right after the flood, a couple of years. Yeah, the house next door is a flood house. GLADYS: There were no houses here. KIM: It was moved up here? When I bought the house that I live in...I'll just mention for the people who listen to this that we're conducting the interview in Les and Gladys' house on Morningview Drive, and I live across the street. My next-door neighbors, Marty and June, were owners of the house next to the one that I purchased. If I recall correctly, Marty told me that he was looking at the two foundations that were in the ground, just put in, and he was choosing which house he would live in. Then the flood came. WES: Right. And then it kind of took off around the corner. But that house was moved in, because we built in 1982. GLADYS: Of course, as we sit here, we can see Meadowbrook Golf Course which was covered with homes. We remember those well. One of your very good friends, the Stoltz (?) family? Their house that we could almost see from here was totally gone. WES: Yeah, it just moved down about a block. It just floated on down. That was a tough, tough night. There was an international band concert here. There were bands from foreign countries that had a parade and all that kind of stuff. They were supposed to have a concert at Stevens High. They did it that night, but they called it short, because it rained so much. They had flood warnings, and the mayor was out playing golf with us. They called him in about 6:00, 6:30, 7:00, and said there could be flooding, and then just kept going. GLADYS: We were at the Elks with the mayor and his family, swimming, and I will never forget as many people who have said this. If we looked toward the Hills, you have never seen such horrible �looking clouds, ever in your life, as we saw. It started to rain, so we decided to go to the Y to finish our swim. WES: Yeah, about 6:30 or 7:00. GLADYS: We were at the Y swimming, and a police officer came in and said words to Mayor Barnett that I’ll never forget. "It appears there's going to be minor flooding. You need to go to the office." We had four cars down there. His wife took their children and went home. You were going to stop at McDonald's and get supper for us. I took our two children and went home down Omaha. By the time I was on Omaha, the water was hitting the bottom of the car. The red light on the car came on. I pulled into the filling station, which the next morning was not there, and the guy said to me, "Just get out of here as fast as you can. Don't worry about the car." I will never forget. I often wondered what happened to him, because the next day the filling station was totally gone. And he always wondered, because I had two little children with us, and he said he always wondered what happened to you. That fall we saw each other out at the Central States Fair, and he was so relieved that we had made it home, and I was relieved, of course, that he had gotten out of there. WES: And the Red Cross made their headquarters at the City Auditorium. The rec office was there, so we opened that. KIM: You mentioned swimming at the Y. Was that located where it is now? GLADYS: Yes. KIM: That must have received some...it might have been high water or something? GLADYS: I don't think it received anything. WES: I think Omaha Street got the brunt of it. GLADYS: And, of course, the Boys' Club was across the street from that filling station that I stopped at. And it was totally damaged. WES: All the trailer houses and small homes on the north side of Omaha all went. GLADYS: And I'll never forget this. Wes got the phone call about 3:00 in the morning, because he was city recreation director from the mayor's office, saying we are calling in all city employees to work. Then you came home that morning about 8:00 and told us what the devastation was. We were on West Chicago Street...we were on Wentworth Drive and did not see it. We had a little water, but no damage. WES: You just come over the hill and see the golf course and houses out on it. I mean, the dam was gone. The dam's about built now. It's getting close. They got another two months to get it done, I think. GLADYS: And I had a brother that lived up at Nemo. Of course, we didn't have cell phones at that time. He said, "I could have called Rapid City and called you to tell you what was going to happen.” His rain gauge went over 19 inches of rain. �WES: And it all came down the canyon. That was quite a change for the city. It went from a ninehole golf course to an eighteen-hole golf course. The bike path, the trail ways, the whole good thing going down. It really changed physically for Rapid City. GLADYS: And the berms, many of the berms on the golf course that we can see from here, are the foundations of homes. They just covered them with dirt. WES: To save moving all the cement. KIM: So there was a nine-hole golf course. Did it kind of grow out all around it, or was the course mostly more to the west or the east? WES: More to the east. If you drive down there now, behind the grade school where their old clubhouse is right now? That's where the new golf course office is for their equipment and that. I would say the first six, seven holes are all on the old part of the course. The new is from about here west. Most of the homes there were all gone. GLADYS: And wasn't the clubhouse the Messenger house? And that was near the bridge. WES: Yeah, until they took it down and built the new clubhouse. KIM: Gladys mentioned that you were called in about 3:00 in the morning. Had the water pretty much been through town by then? WES: Yeah, in fact, it was starting to go by the time we got down. The first thing I saw was at about 4:30, going over the West Junior High Hill. You could see the flood there. You could see where it had gone through, and it was hard to believe. GLADYS: And then you saw the houses that were moved. WES: It just blew your mind. After the Rapid City flood, the national government started the Flood Recovery Act. Van Lindquist was head of it in Rapid City for a long time, and they started that. Then they came in and gave loans. They gave 1 percent loans to people to build again. GLADYS: That was a life saver. WES: Right. For city rec, for the clubhouse and shop, they gave us fifty kids. We put them in groups of ten. We hired an adult with them. They had to hand-rake the golf course to get stuff off. Then we went up Dark Canyon and started cleaning out homes, or what was left of homes. They would just take ten kids with an adult and say to clean this house, just rake it, and clean it. GLADYS: They did a lot of work on parks. WES: Right. They went up Dark Canyon and up Cleghorn Canyon. GLADYS: What I will never forget the morning after the flood was the eeriness. The fog or the clouds, whatever you wanted to call it, and the smell. I will never, ever forget that. You knew that it was the smell of death. It was awful. �WES: They didn't find some of the bodies until after five or six weeks, at least, that had gone down Rapid Creek. That was tough. GLADYS: We lost a renter and a little baby. That was such a sad thing. WES: He was military. GLADYS: Yes. And the day before, we had lots of military people that would rent from us, because they would pass the word. We always, if they got a renter for us, we would give them a little monetary gift. The day of the flood, we were over, because these kids were leaving. Our rentals were not hurt at all, but they heard about this flood coming. They got in their car, tried to drive down Baken Park. WES: Where McDonald's is now and the bridge. GLADYS: The water hit as they were there and washed the lady and the baby away. WES: He spent the night on top of a garage. GLADYS: The old Cadillac garage. WES: Yeah, Black Hills Cadillac garage where the bank is now, where Pioneer Bank is. There was a big old garage there, and he spent the night there. GLADYS: With many other people on the roof of the garage that night, as that happened to many people. KIM: A lot of tragedies. One of the things that strikes me as I talk to more people about this is there are a number of people that I've talked to that live just a couple block away from where the severe damage happened and didn't know anything had happened until they woke up the next morning. WES: It was really west Rapid and Omaha Street. GLADYS: And then east where it hit down there because of all the trailers. I will say that Rapid City really pulled together after that. It came together just unbelievable. KIM: How long after the flood was Meadowbrook reopened as it is now, as the eighteen-hole course? WES: I think it was spring of 1974. It took about two years. KIM: Just about the time that you were just finishing your furnace (?). WES: Right, because the house where the clubhouse is now was Brocklesby's house, the guy that owned Reptile Gardens. The city had bought that house from him, and that was my rec office at the time. They had moved from the City Auditorium to the rec office. They had that, and they didn't �build a new clubhouse here until ten years ago. It was a big home, a very big home, and the city just took it over. They have a restaurant down below and the pro shop, a little eating place up on top. That served from 1975 to 2000, until whenever they built the clubhouse here. KIM: Do you have any particular recollections of the start of the school year of 1972-1973? That would have been the fall after... GLADYS: Yes, the fall after the flood, right. KIM: I guess the real question is: was there enough time between June and September... WES: There wasn't a school that was damaged that badly. GLADYS: Meadowbrook had some water damage, but it was repaired in time. We were at Pinedale, and that had no damage. I remember that one night during the summer, we were at the Playhouse with the Barnett's, and Dr. Lindley was there, too. I remember Barnett and Lindley were talking, saying, "Boy, you have a tough job." The discussion was who was going to have the toughest job, really, when fall came, the mayor or the superintendent of schools. For both of them, that was a huge task. I will say that I think Mayor Barnett was in the right place at the right time, because he was young, and he had that energy that you needed. He had the wonderful Leonard Swanson, the public works director, who was also an amazing... WES: Leonard Swanson. He got the city back going. He was a tough taskmaster, but a good one and a smart one. He was very good, and I know I was working city rec. KIM: When you had that shared position, the part-time parks and rec. I know parks and recreation is responsible for the city cemeteries, too. WES: Cemeteries was one of the divisions under the parks and rec department. It was Lon Von Dusen. That's when they went across the road and started the new cemetery. GLADYS: That was another area. The morticians in Rapid City came together, and they brought in, they had to bring in so many, but there was no competition. I mean, they just came in and worked for the betterment of Rapid City and for the people. WES: Behrens’, Osheim's, the whole crew. I was trying to think of major changes in the city. The cement plant is still there; it was going well then. It's different now, because it was sold. It's a Mexican firm that owns it. That kind of changed a lot of things there. The two malls are sure different. They built the one north of Rapid, you know, and now they're going north and east. Baken Park has really gone down from what it used to be when you were here. The Hagerty's store and all those. There are six stores that are vacant. We kind of feel that they should just level it and build a new mall. It's the perfect spot for it. Before that mall was built, it was a park that had campsites and little cabins to stay in. There was a dance pavilion there. It was quite the mecca in the city, really. It was really a neat place. They they took that all out. GLADYS: The biggest change for downtown was when the mall was built. �WES: The major stores moved out there. KIM: I arrived here with a new baby in 1978, and we got baby furniture in the Sears downtown. Then we needed to get some more. We got here in the last few months of Sears being downtown. I think Penney's had moved already. GLADYS: And then Donaldson's was on the corner. Donaldson's Department Store. WES: That was a big department store on the corner. GLADYS: I can't remember when that closed. WES: That was the hub... KIM: Which corner was it that Donaldson's was on? WES: Seventh and St. Joe. GLADYS: It's the Presidents' Pawn Shop now. WES: It took in about four buildings, and it was two or three stories. That was THE store when we moved here in 1950. The bus used to stop right next to it. That was the biggest change for downtown when that mall opened. It was such a big place than what you had downtown. KIM: I think there's been a wonderful renaissance in the time I've been here. I do recall going downtown on a Friday evening and feeling like I'd gone into an abandoned city or something. WES: Yes, the city has done a very good job. They really have. As you know, all the bigger eating places are out toward the mall, that area. GLADYS: Part of it is because of the base. KIM: How much influence was there of the base being there in the 50's and 60's? `` WES: Huge. It's still big, but not like it was in the 50's, 60's and 70's. The base was the big stabilizer. It was all the military people. I can still recall all the car dealers really welcomed them, because there were so many young, single guys. It was car city for them. GLADYS: And when the base first opened up, and I can't tell you what year it was. WES: 1949. GLADYS: I do remember my father was out there, and they needed people to come to work out there. So my father and another man that lived not too far from us worked in the fire department for a couple years, because they needed people. Everybody went to work for the war or after the war. �WES: Yeah, the base was still a huge factor, but not like it was. It's smaller and more efficient; there are a lot fewer people. Bigger planes, all that. KIM: I was told that at the time I arrived here, Ellsworth Air Force Base was the third largest city in South Dakota. GLADYS: I think that is correct. WES: Yeah, it probably was because you'd go to Sioux Falls, you'd go to Rapid, and even then, Aberdeen or Huron or Watertown or Mitchell was 12,000, 10,000. You know, somewhere in there. Yeah, that was true. GLADYS: There was very good repoire between Ellsworth and Rapid City at that time. I remember at holidays that they would broadcast on the radio. Would you have room at your dinner table to take several? And Rapid City did. I remember we did. WES: But there are many more... GLADYS: Yeah, but they were young then. There weren't so many families. There were single people then. WES: Trying to think of what else in Rapid City. Skyline Drive has always been a big point in the city. Now it's both good and bad. It kind of split the city to a certain degree. I think the two schools have split the city, but there is friendly competition between the schools. Tonight the Central-Stevens playoff game is at 7:00, and I would guess they'll draw 4,000 there tonight. They've both won one. It'll be a big game. The team who wins goes to state automatically, so it's been good for the city there. GLADYS: And we remember well when the present Civic Center that we have was proposed, and the fight that we had to pass that. WES: They actually went to Boise, Idaho, and looked at the football stadium that they built in Boise. If you recall now, they have an indoor football field with the orange and blue carpet. They flew people from our Civic Center board out there to look at it, because they proposed putting that in to start with which would be a bigger arena. This was built for a basketball arena to get the state basketball tournament out here from Sioux Falls, because we didn't have any place at all. (Inaudible) always had the "B" tournament and the "A" tournament. We had nothing out here. One of the main objectives was that we were going to build a basketball arena which really seats about 9,000 when you put them in. I think at the first basketball tournament we hosted, I was the AD at Stevens that year. GLADYS: And Howard Naasz... WES: Howard Naasz was at Central, and I think we put in about 10,000 people. They were on the floor; they just put them in to see them. The basketball tournaments don't draw like they used to, because now they've gone to three classes, the "AA", the "A", and the "B". It used to be an "A" and a "B", and that really filled the houses. I mean, that was a big draw. Now, the "AA" schools have just enough to have a tournament. It's just the big twelve. �GLADYS: And you can't get the number of people. WES: The "A's" draw fair; the "B's" are pretty small to draw now, because it's like Faith and those smaller schools. You could take the whole school, and you wouldn't have more than 100 kids. It's like Mount Vernon or Parkston or those. They're good teams, I don't mean that, but it's just the size of their contingent. The whole school could go. The "B" State Wrestling Tournament was here, but there were 44 schools in it, so there were about 3,000 people. You could bring, like I say, the whole school to cheer for the four or five guys who wrestled, so that has been a change across the state. GLADYS: And I don't know what Rapid City would have done, honestly, without the Civic Center. The Civic Center has been a driving force for Rapid City. I was president of Central States Fair and Black Hills Stock Show in the mid-80's. They put on the new addition for the stock show, which the stock show has now outgrown. WES: And they put on the theater since then and the ice rink. I mean, everything they've done to it has been positive for the city, we feel. It's generated income. I know we don't draw the big shows, but the big shows aren't like they used to be. GLADYS: When you just stop and think what, truly, the Civic Center has done for Rapid City. WES: Between the base and the Civic Center, it's been the biggest. KIM: Was Central in its current location? Was it under construction at the same time as the Civic Center? They were both relatively new when I got here, but they were here, as I recall. GLADYS: Yeah, they had to be close to overlapping if they weren't. KIM: I think when Stevens opened, Central High School was in the Rapid City High School. WES: Yeah, that's right. And then they built on that. They must have built that in 1974 or 1975, and I think the Civic Center went up in 1977. GLADYS: It was after the flood. WES: They had the same energy plant to heat both of them, and that was a big bone of contention for a while, too. But that's worked out well. They heat the arena for that; they heat the school for that. The parking lot has been good for both, because if they have a big game at night they go across, or if they have a big event at the Civic Center, and school's not in session. In fact, they used to close, or they had shortened the school day during the Stock Show, so they could have more parking. They had the kids go from 7:00 to 1:00, and then they could have the parking lot. The new addition at Central has really been major. GLADYS: It's really positive. �WES: They need to redo Stevens. Actually, Stevens was older than Central, and they built the new science down there before they built science at Stevens, which seemed to be a bone of contention to some. That's 45 years old. They weren't 35 yet, and they got new science, and they're still waiting. It's tough. You're in education. For history and math, that's not a problem. A gym is a gym; a history room is a history room. Science is the big room. Art and music are the ones that need special...yeah, they were big. GLADYS: I guess another thing when I just think about Rapid City...of course, I love Rapid City and the Black Hills, is that we have wonderful non-profit organizations that really take care of Rapid City. KIM: A very generous town. WES: Youth and Family Services, Boys' Club, Girls' Club... GLADYS: You just can't start naming them, because there are so many. WES: There are too many to name, and they are very good. GLADYS: Very well run. WES: In fact, I'd say, for the most part, we've had good leadership in the city, both city and school. I think we’re pretty progressive. You may have some that are stronger in one area than the other, but, in total, I think it's been a pretty good run for the city. With the new one coming up, we'll see what goes there. We feel that a lot of the future of Rapid depends on this. If we don't, we're going to have an old basketball arena that would be updated with signs and bathrooms, but you won't be able to do the things you're going to need to do 20 years from now for Rapid City. Our kids are for it; our grand kids are on some committees for that, because they'll see the need in their lifetime. We won't see it built, probably, in our lifetime, whether they start this July. It will still take them a few years to get it done and get it going. They say that in three years it will be up and going, but we'll see what comes. The vote will determine it, and we'll see how it goes. Can you think of anything else? KIM: Well... WES: The schools have stayed pretty close to the same. I think in the late 80's, they were at about 14,000 students for the city, and I think we're at about 14,000 now. We have so many retired that live in the Hills which are all good for Rapid City, but they don't have kids in school. I think that the year I was on the board about 27 percent of people in the city had kids in school. That's really hard to communicate things about the school, if we don't have kids in school. You don't know what's going on, whether it be good or bad or whatever. It's tough to sell bond issues for a school or an opt-out or anything else. It's not that they're against it, but they certainly don't know. I'm just thinking that they don't have kids in school. Theirs is a senior; their boys are all gone; the next door neighbors don't have anybody. They have one young son there, and we don't have anybody. They don't have anybody across the street now. At Dell's house, they have two kids in school. GLADYS: And that's why when people say, well, how can Rapid City have grown so, but �the student population has really stayed very close to the same for a long time. That is the reason. We have so many people moving into Rapid City for retirement, so your school population is not changing. WES: I think this year we're 13,800, and there were 14,200 in the 80's. They are right around that 14,000 mark, give or take a few, too. The base kids came in until 1967, 1968, and then they built their own. In the early 70's and 80's, the base was so large, and it drew so many people from the 48 states that a lot of good athletes would come in with their families. A family from New Jersey or California or Kansas or wherever would come in. The military people were there. Their kids were good athletes. GLADYS: They had good teams. WES: They had very good teams. They were very competitive. They're okay now. They were a powerhouse for a while because of the size of the school and the population. They're okay in their class now. The school is good; I'm talking about athletics. With Piedmont and Sturgis schools, we don't draw anything from that. That would be Black Hawk and on in. We feel the schools have been good. With all education, you have some great ones and some great rooms and some rooms that aren't so great. The school district as a whole has been pretty stable. GLADYS: And I can truthfully say, and I know you can, too, all the years that I taught, yes, there were some tough days, but I always wanted to get up in the morning and go to school. I loved my job, and I loved working with kids. We had wonderful kids and wonderful parents. WES: It was hard to retire, but we both enjoyed what we were doing. She was working with a good faculty, and I had a good faculty. You're only as good as your staff. If you have a good staff, you have a good school. The schools I was always at were good people. They were tough to leave, because they were good. You see a lot of them now that you hired 20 years ago that are now getting to the end of their careers. They're thinking they've got another four or five years to go. It just seems kind of odd. GLADYS: Wonderful educators. WES: I hired more kids to teach for me in the Rapid City Schools when I was a principal that were Rapid City kids. They went to college and came back to Rapid. I don't see that many kids going into education, number one, and I don't see that many kids from Rapid City wanting to come back to Rapid to teach. I think it's a shame, because... GLADYS: But we know what the problem is. It's the salaries. WES: The values that kids had here were always good. You know, something else, for a small town of 50,000 to 75,000, you've had Mark Ellis play pro ball for 12 years, Collins for 17. You had Becky Hammond who is now the first woman assistant men's basketball coach for San Antonio. GLADYS: And had a wonderful basketball career. �WES: She holds all kinds of records. You had Adam Vinatieri who graduated from Central. He's still kicking in the pro football league. You had Piatkowski who played pro basketball. . We had Collins. We've had six or seven from Rapid City that have been major...Will Collins on the PGA golf. GLADYS: And Van Boening. WES: Van Boening, the top pool player in the world. It's really quite something when you think of Rapid City, a town of about 60,000 at that time. That's really quite an accomplishment. GLADYS: But the best thing about every single one of them is that they were solid, midwestern kids that have kept their mid-western roots and values, even though they've gone on to the pros. WES: They're all doing very good. When they get out of athletics like Piatkowski and Dutton and those people, they're all solid people. GLADYS: Solid citizens. WES: They've done very well. I hated to see Ellis leave. He was student council president at West when I was there. He played Legion ball here. He was just an all-American kid. Will Collins, the golfer, was a very smart and sharp kid. For a town our size, I think if you look at the rest of the state, I would say we're ahead of all of them, Sioux Falls or whatever. There's always that comparison. Sioux Falls did it, or we did it. Sioux Falls is a great city of 170,000. They really draw, because it's more cosmopolitan where we are western. They have more industry because of their location. GLADYS: Totally different. WES: I think at times in West River, we've won more championships at the high schools in individual sports than we have in team sports. Our football for the last ten or twelve years has not been very strong compared to East River. Our basketball has been marginal, but you look at track or cross country or wrestling or gymnastics or volleyball, and they've really held their own. It's kind of ironic. I don't really know the answer to that. I think in Sioux Falls that Sanford has built so many things for Sioux Falls that the kids have had more exposure to things. They have South Dakota State and South Dakota U. close by. They've got Sioux Falls College and Augustana. They have a better background for kids. We have the Mines, and we have Black Hills. Comparison-wise, it just doesn't have it. They've built exercise facilities that are so far ahead of us for the city. Their facilities for those things will be way ahead. GLADYS: It's East-West. WES: They've produced those kids coming out. It's funny, because the families of Hammond and Ellis and Dutton are all different families. There was nothing special about the families. They're all good parents, I don't mean that. Piatkowski's dad was a former pro basketball player. Mark Ellis' mom and dad were a car salesman and schoolteacher's aide. They were just good people. �KIM: Mark Ellis' dad was stationed out at the base with me. WES: Just nice... GLADYS: Ordinary people. WES: Hammond's mother sells real estate. KIM: Adam Vinatieri's mom was the lunch lady. WES: Dave Collins' dad sold insurance. I'm not sure if his mom worked or not. GLADYS: I don't think Jean did. WES: There again, just a good city. When I was in ninth grade and moved out here, I really didn't like it, coming out with the cowboys and everybody. I ended up marrying a cowgirl, but it was just a different world for us in the East River. But thinking back, that was the best move my parents ever made. Thinking back, at the time, I thought, why would anyone want to come to the Black Hills? KIM: What did bring your folks here? GLADYS: Your dad was a mortician. WES: He was a mortician, and then he went to the farm for about 10-12 years. He always wanted to get back into being a mortician. Behrens’ Mortuary was out here. Harry Behrens was the state president. He was on the board when my father got his license back in 1928 or 1930, and he knew George and Harry, the Behrens brothers out here. He came out here to work with them, and that was kind of the draw. We just moved out here, and that was about it. GLADYS: He had to get off the farm, because he'd hurt his back. So he sold the farm. WES: As far as Gladys and I went to the same high school, I didn't know her in high school at all. I graduated and went to Black Hills. I was going to be a junior. She had finished school and worked for a year. Then she came up to the Black Hills. She was a year behind me, and she worked a year and came up there. She was a good student, and I kind of latched onto that. We got to know each other, and that was it. We've enjoyed Rapid. We lived in Black Hawk the first year and then on West Chicago and then on Windsor Drive and then over here. So it's kind of been a transition. It's kind of funny, as I look back now, for our first house I think we paid $10,200, and that was big. That was big. GLADYS: It was on West Chicago Street. WES: It was a one slab floor, and then we went to a bigger house out on Windsor for $16,000. We thought, boy, will we be able to make it? GLADYS: Will we be able to make those payments? �WES: It's the same way with you when you moved here to there to there. It's like everything else in Rapid. Everything has just moved with it. It's funny, the little house. When we bought our first one for $10,200, I think that was for a sale for $5,600, really a small one. We could have bought that, I think. GLADYS: Oh, the house next door? WES: Yeah, it'd probably be $175,000. It was just a little itty bitty house. They've added on. They've changed it and all that. As you know, the city. And then the new house we have above Canyon Lake is kind of adding a new dimension to west Rapid, isn't it? KIM: It's a big one. It's a big, shiny house. WES: It is. And you can probably shut that off. KIM: Okay. � Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interviews Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Rapid City Public Library Description An account of the resource Oral Histories recorded for the Rapid City Oral History Project by Rapid City Public Library Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Wes and Gladys Storm Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Kim Morey Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 1:05:24 Location The location of the interview Rapid City Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview: Wes and Gladys Storm Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2015-03-11 Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource Yes Description An account of the resource Wes and Gladys were longtime educators in the Rapid City area. During this interview they share information about not only the education system but Ellsworth Air Force Base and the 1972 Flood in Rapid City. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context 290184 Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Rapid City Oral History Project Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Rapid City Public Library 1972 Flood Black Hills Black Hills State University Education Ellsworth Air Force Base Historic Buildings Local History Rapid City Rapid City Teacher’s Strike Rapid City Teachers' Strike South Dakota Sports https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/46614/archive/files/99f668b3daffb048d4805dc43f47d0eb.mp3?Expires=1776902400&Signature=OzxpRK29cq8mEZ3Mne71RPNVNYRe9NZ-DaOsyojUoO7o8zi5-QjM6BspRTbgSCfOywKxTn8Y7ors%7EQ7UDQwVvGIknD1yEFG30O-B2flgtrUvOyZDEtVEIwLBZcvsWaJHOaWYlsoe2wVgv%7EJbz3wyFbMSs-CGc1WIcV4YD00TxFa5DxutBy3qGTuNSvN1%7EX3adWuj6vyFT-nOtPJdGeLgTVrg3MkACJJg0o698a%7EhT9ZBl61%7EbsRHA4b8%7EuOfgcXGKK-gQJYeOaw1gn4QFFrmyOsW2MUIHi%7EnW36C0Fs6A4ER5hLdqiA9yABgyBvBj8YIoy7ti3SENgjB3ryco7BESg__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM b2a81d81092aa076dcd584574c620f11 Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Grace Mickelson audio https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/46614/archive/files/9dd8933e4e9c13b795ea20430c82a71d.pdf?Expires=1776902400&Signature=O9YCgR1glgkDVRs6cBTZnbBXsbwekt7dglmiXjLd02UyWNGKx04YBpWDz9rEdiBcugGc963q-46nN7H7c8MddY4rxC%7E7kvhs%7EaN7K7AonLAophNneo0gYFRJGB6ytVVz7pF4z16tPG0NKg%7EBey9jdyktRBA8-O9Y%7EEaIGCQzbOLUzT3BT0LZYSa%7ETvSmu-96T6l4vmLJLZU6FzkNTVBlGEOCDwOA7tcjQf8UxXXdpgBD9-xdfmDtiPWkGquYtW0J-BaKGdFe26X8DGQkGg9NARvMDNTHFwDYX8JWsI6sVd7T-6gkd0tIMdx%7EIg3oDb4a-tMKrRx9GU9PZSB6kbkjLA__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM dd738d82674b63567600fb928c38417a PDF Text Text Bev Pechan: It's July 9th, 2015 and we are talking to Grace is it Mickelson or Michaelson, Michaelson. That's what I thought. Grace Mickelson: Spelled Mickelson. Bev: And this is Bev Pechan and Grace let's start at the beginning. Where you were born, where you grew up. And go from there. Grace: Oh, well that's interesting. I was born in Iowa in 1926 so I am getting pretty old and grew up here and went to school at a church school right there Waldorf college in my home town and then I went down to the University of Iowa and finished down there and that is where I met my husband after the war. When he came back he was a graduate student in the geology department and I was secretary to the head of the geology department working my way through school. Bev: And you're major was what? Grace: My major was math. And I stayed there doing secretarial work to pay for school and after we got married I started right in teaching. So I taught until he finished school. Bev: You taught math. Grace: I taught math. Bev: Tuition was a lot less back then wasn't it? Grace: Right because I was able to work my way through as secretary but it was kind of interesting because John had been in the war and behind the Japanese lines in the Philippines for months and when he came out he was in the hospital in Australia for 16 months and ______ for �16 months and then he came to Iowa. And I didn't know until after engaged to him and one of the professors told me you know they told us from the hospital they didn't know whether he would make it or not. After that experience but we think you helped. (laughter) Well that is a crazy situation. And then when he finished we went out to Washington State and John taught in _______ department at Washington State. For five years but you know we were living on a professor’s salary and starting a family of four and if you don't have any money to buy groceries the last week of the month. So he took a job with Sohio, an oil company. And we traveled the whole west. Billings, Casper, Salt Lake, Oklahoma all those places. We moved 9 times in seven years with the oil company and that is when we decided enough is enough. Bev: And how did you wind up in the Black Hills? Grace: Well because he got a job in the geology department at the school of mines. Back to what he had been doing out at Washington State. And so we came in '61 and I have been in that same little house on St. Charles Street since 1961. It was interesting because when we came to town and I came out here with the four kids looking for a place to live. It was missile time when they were having the missile crisis and there were four houses in Rapid for sale. And so I went shopping with Mr. Washer the realtor and I picked one and he called the office and it was gone. So there were three. Three house s left. Bev: Oh my goodness Grace: And so I picked that one on St. Charles Street and we've been there ever since. Not that we didn't have to double it the first summer. You know with four kids. So and then I started teaching at Central in 1961. When we came here. So that's what I did. Bev: You were talking about your daughter having a horse. And keeping it on Babe Steinberg’s property which she said at that time was out in the country. Describe what Rapid City was like in the 1960's when you first got here from __________. Was it a lot of non-building quite a ways...? Grace: It was. Our church across from South Junior High, that old Faith Lutheran Church there. You know and I think they got started with a group of people that probably built in that area south of St. Patrick on down probably to Fairmont. That area was just developing when we �came. But I know there was nothing south of Fairmont. It was just pasture. Been there done that. But that was after we came if you want me to go on. Bev: Sure Grace: It was after we came because I was just... I was checking to see if I had some dates right. You know I started teaching in '61 and I think when I was home those years with the oil company I was one frustrated young lady with 4 kids. So I really for something to do got involved in the Toastmistress club. I did that in the 50's and I really think to this day my work in Toastmistress for something to do you know and then I joined the National Association of... I had to have something to do. National Association of Parliamentarians and became a registered parliamentarian so when I came here I was president elect of International Toastmistress clubs. When we came here and I served that out and then in '64 by '64 I was elected president of the Rapid City Education Association. One thing just led to another. Bev: Ok but you spent a big part of your life in civic organizations and community service and that sort of thing. Grace: During those years. And then I went right from RCA president to SEA president so I was president of the State Education Association and I was really amazing myself after you called. I didn't remember that I was the first. We had just gone to full time presidents. And I was the first woman full time president which meant I had to take a leave and I'm not going to go into it because it’s not my favorite part of my history but I've got a lot of information on it. That was at the time in '68 when the Rapid City teachers went on strike which is a horrid memory in some people’s eyes but I was on the other side of it serving as an officer here and for the state and getting blamed for lots of things. I looked through my notebook today and I couldn't believe. My God, they got and injunction to make us go back to work. You haven't lived through a strike when you were right in the middle of it. But we did, we did get the right to collectively bargain through the legislature and I served with three men on the first negotiating team and that is where I ran head on into Wally McCullen. You know Wally McCullen the old lawyer. Bev: No, I don't. �Grace: Tough as nails. Wally McCullen. I sat across the table from Wally McCullen negotiating. And then I ran for the Senate in '72 and was elected so I was President of SDEA and in the Senate at the same time so I could push arbitration and negotiations. And then I was appointed to the state constitution and revision commission and Wally was practically the legal advisor. You know he was a sharp old, old enough to be my father I think. But after sitting across from him when we'd get down in Pierre for meetings at the constitution and revision commission and I tell you I couldn't... he just took care of me like I was his daughter. He just protected me every time I… Isn't that interesting? You sit across a table from him and he snapped at me one day because the guys made me take notes so I am taking notes and he's across the table in his law office downtown and he looked over at me and he said... because I'd just been installed in Toastmistresses. Did the president of International Toastmistress Club get that down in writing? And I said yes sir. (laughter) It was funny that I was taking notes. Any way... you don't care about that. But it was my work. I'm trying to get to something. It was my work on the constitutional revision commission that led me to the history and the library because my whole life had been Math and Science. And here I was so while working on that I got one shelf of books on SD History and after that was over with and John was so much more interested in history than I was and I didn't know any history at all. That we started collecting rare books and I've often thought that Bev Pechan’s never seen my library. Bev: I haven't. I've heard lots about it though. Grace: We started collecting like we were nuts. And we went to auctions and we bought boxes of books and picked out what we wanted and brought practically the rest of them down here to Friends of the Library for their book sales and that's what I brought this notebook for because this we really do.... this is my bibliography for my library- 78 pages that I put on the computer because we do have 2,500 volumes of books on SD History. Bev: SD History alone, that many. Grace: No, mostly history. John's real interest was Custer so we've got to have a Custer section and my main interest was the Sioux Indians so I have 10 shelves of those but other than that we have the collections and session laws back to Dakota Territory Days. I mean just junk. Bev: No, It's not junk. �Grace: But you know last week. See my project the week before last cause I use my library a lot all the time. The week before last I was researching for Daryl Schumacher down at City Hall the invitation to the United Nations. They had that the mayor proclaimed a couple weeks ago United Nations Day. And I just went down to his office the next day and told him off because there was nothing in the paper, there was nothing on TV. I read about it the day after. And I thought I would have liked to have gone to that because I've always been intrigued by the material I have from 1945 on that inviting the United Nations here. Bev: It almost made it. Grace: And one of the 5 and it was ____ told me the problems about getting announcements in the paper. It gets harder all the time I guess. So I didn't know about it. I took these two beautiful brochures that I had been thinking about and wondering where can I get more information on that and I was standing at the counter in the mayor’s office talking to the secretary and telling her that I wanted to ask him why did he proclaim was it just a PR stunt or was there something really behind it you know. And I took these two brochures out of the envelope and she said Grace where'd you get those. She said last Tuesday up at Reptile Gardens they told us that they had the only copy that was ever known and it was tattered. Mine are mint. So then I met with Daryl and he shared with me everything he had and I went home and spent several days. I read through this line by line all 78 pages hunting for stuff and I found two. Bev: I have quite a bit of information on that. When I was working on that turn of the Century project for the Rapid City Journal where they had a Rest of the story and then a page from the last 100 years and I did a lot of research and so I went back to the microfilm for the Rapid City Journal and I've got pages and pages of photo copies that I've made of what was in the papers at that time. Grace: Really?! Kim: I know you only worried about after the fact, were you able to determine if Judge Young was involved in this. Judge Young’s Grandfather was Paul Bellamy and he was. You mean was he involved two weeks ago Tuesday? �Kim: Yeah right. Grace: Yes, he was there. He was there. I called up the Journal. The guy that put the story in the paper. Cause I thought it was poorly written. And I called him up and asked him if he was going to do a follow up. And he said no. And I said well why did you write this story what prompted this? Well he was given it as an assignment and he went up there and I said well who was there. There was no notice about it. He said a few reporters. I said how many people in the audience and he said there wasn't any. Well if you don't publicize it what are you going to get. And I had neighbors who I talked to and they said what are you doing and I said well I'm _________ the United Nations. And he'd come in the house and get a kick out of it cause one guy across the street knew nothing about the stratobowl til he came over and I had all my stratobowl stuff laid out for Greta. Greta took my stratobowl stuff and put it on the Knowledge Network. I thought going down to the Journal and doing some research on it. But all Daryl had was 5 little articles with little bylines. Philadelphia, New York, Boston, not much information. Bev: You can't assume what you think people know. Keystone had on the third of July the first time they had like a little old fashioned celebration and so I was there taking pictures for the Hill City newspaper and I got to talking to people and I talked to a family from Rapid City who had relatives from Grand Island and they were there and she said they had no idea living in Rapid City that people actually lived in Keystone. They thought it was just stores. And they knew nothing about the original part of town. And it is amazing how many teachers and students I have talked to where the children have never been to Mt. Rushmore. Grace: Really? Bev: And you just assume that everybody that knows at least something about what's going on but it’s not true and so many things have happened in this small region that had world significance. Maybe more per capita than any other place I can think of and it’s just.... Grace: Well and I'm interested now because I'm cutting those 100 scenes that the Journal started and I cut that out every day and I'm keeping it but I sat down after I saw the first one and tried to make a list of what I thought they were going to do. I got to 55 and then I quit. But then I decided a lot of them were caves and caves I didn't know anything about and I think I've been in one and I didn't want to go in another one but that was my project last week I read two books on caves and one of them I told you was written and I found her as a reference many places. 1898 Owens. Caves of Missouri and the Black Hills. And that is the oldest reference I found anyplace �and it was in my library. So I decided to sit down and read it. Because when I married John, we went right down to the Ozarks to work on his thesis. And I thought well isn't that interesting. I spent a whole summer down at the Ozarks and here's a book all about. So that was my latest project to read two books last week on caves. Bev: Question. When you buy those books like at auctions and sales and things. And I've done this. How many do you actually read? Or do you use them occasionally for a reference when you think about it or how does it work for you. Grace: Well I tell you, I used to read the Indian books and John read Custer. And didn't read historical collections or that but every year since I have been alone I've tried to pick a project and one of the projects I picked was the CCC. Because we had gotten some books at auction. A couple yearbooks actually. I think there only were like 4 and I have like two of them. And I started and I made a notebook for all the places in the hills where they did projects that became recreational areas and then I decided that in addition to the sites that became recreational areas that I wanted to know about reclamation projects but they came later but I have used my books the last 10 years more than you can imagine and pick a project and some projects kind of fizzle. Kim: You say you create your own binders then of information that you collect? You are keeping those in your library currently. Grace: Yeah they are just in... Cause I now have a new one that says United Nations on the outside and I'm going to have one on caves. But I did the reclamation areas and that led me to call the lady down at the bureau of reclamation cause I wanted to know all the reclamation dams starting with Shade Hill and up at Belle Fourche. What's the name of that one? Orman and then there's one over in Wyoming that was on my list ... Keyhole and down to Pactola. But you know I called down to the Bureau of Reclamation. I called every Corp of Engineers office along the Mississippi River harassing them. But when I called down there to see what she had on each of these she said "Grace, I've been over at your house". I got rid of the brand books except a couple so I put them in the paper. I wasn't really interested in brand books. And I put them on the auction at the Stock Show right after John died because I wasn't interested in that. But she said Grace I have material on all of those dams and I asked if I could come pick it up and she said?? She sent me an envelope that big with absolutely fantastic historical and otherwise information on all of those dams and I just put it all in a notebook and sat and read it. It's absolutely fantastic. �Bev Pechan: I was astounded to find out there were ... and I guess they referred to them as prisoners of war that completed the Deerfield Dam when the war broke out it was the Quakers and they were conscientious objectors. They would serve the country but they wouldn't fight. And so they brought them all up here. Grace: Yeah but what war was it? Bev Pechan: World War II. And they completed the dam at Deerfield. Grace: Ok because after World War II the prisoners of war came to my town in Iowa and they worked at the canning factory and that was at the end of our lane. Bev Pechan: Those were mostly Germans. I know a lot of them worked in the sugar beet fields here and ________? talked about having some of the workers on their farm. Grace: Well that's an interesting subject for study. Why don't you do it? (laughter) It sounds like another binder. Bev Pechan: Well it was and they did a lot of the work at Ft. Meade. A lot of the construction. In fact there's still in the sidewalk and then I think there's a block in the wall as you go in the Post Office that says POW and it has their names engraved in it you know. They weren't supposed to be friendly with the local people but a lot of them did make friends. Grace: Yeah and see I was a young girl in high school and my parents were nervous wrecks because they wanted to be friendly. Bev Pechan: I did write a story on it for the Rapid City Journal several years ago now. �Kim Morey: May I ask? You must have a tremendous collection of your own collection of information as you do your projects. Do you have some plan to make that work available to the public at some time? Grace: No, but you know I just blabber. I have been a notebook person all my life. I was president of Toastmistresses in 1968 and they always had a paper folder and I made them do a notebook. I've just been notebook nuts. But it’s so much easier to look at than loose papers. Bev Pechan: I've gone to that the last couple years. It works a lot better. Grace: Yeah I really have gone to notebook. But a few years ago I decided and that’s what I was kind of looking at since you called. I thought I can't even remember when I did these things. Because one place in my bedroom there's notebooks I did in the area of education. You know there's a notebook for when I worked with RCEA and there's a notebook for SDEA. Then there's a notebook that has my Senate fliers on the front. Then there's a notebook that has my picture when I was deputy principle regional official of health education and welfare in Denver. I really decided that it was ridiculous to have. I still have it. File folders and drawers full of loose papers that are just a mess. So I have one that thick of RCA and the negotiating team and the strike and it's amazing and I put it all together and then I had the three guys but Ernie Van Gerpen died. But I had them over for coffee and showed them the book I put together. All the newspaper clippings as we went through the strike and what the schoolboard told us... Kim: It's interesting that you mention Ernie Van Gerpen. I am the chair of the board at Highmark Federal Credit Union. The Rapid City Teachers. The oldest Federal Credit Union in the Black Hills. Grace: Yeah but I got mad at them. I got mad at Highmark after having been there for years. And Ernie I started with Ernie up in his little room up on second floor. You know where that room was? See I taught in the Coolidge building but he was in the main building. I did get promoted because I got over to the other building. But I don't remember what I was mad about because John and I had stuff there for years. And then I got mad and Ernie didn't like it when I got mad but I moved down to Black Hills Federal Credit Union. (laughter) And you know if I get mad I will just get out of here. And I don't even remember what I got mad about. The way something was handled. �Kim: I know we are an imperfect organization. Grace: I know why I left. Because they got rid of Ernie. I know why I left. They got rid of Ernie and it made me mad. Didn't they get rid of him? Kim: You know I don't know that part of the history. I am going to have to look back into that. Grace: You might have to look that up because I remember clear as a bell now but know I am getting old now and it’s hard to remember it all. Kim: I know that we had Ernie back for our 75th anniversary. Grace: Yes, but they got rid of him. There was a clash and plain and simply I left Highmark in a protest when they fired Ernie. Kim: Wow we are going to have to look into that and see if we have some records. Grace: You better study your own history. Kim: Yes, Ma’am. Grace: But I started with Ernie when we first came here and he had a credit union in a little closet up on the second floor of the main building. �Kim: And the vault that we had is still there. They still have the vault that we used when Rapid City Teachers was in what is now Rapid City High School again. They might have done some remodeling so Ernie’s office is kind of like it was here. But we moved that wall or whatever. (Talking over each other) Kim: Over at the high school, the rooms that were the credit union when it was started. The vault is still there. Grace: It's still there. I'll be darned. And that is kind of how I got knowing Ernie and Ernie had been frustrated about teachers’ salaries and his background and I was a math teacher and Harold was a math teacher. And the three of us kind of put our heads together and started a war. You know, and that's kind of how I got I mean one whole summer with negotiations. We practically lived in Ernie's basement over there. Bev: Let's talk about that teachers strike. Go ahead Kim. Kim: Well I live across the street from Wes and Gladys Storm and they mentioned that as well as being a very important point in the history of our town. Grace: I was just amazed even today that notebook is that thick and I thought boy Grace you spent a hell of a lot of time putting this together. But you know it was just loose papers and file folders in my file drawer. It wasn't interesting to me. It wasn't anything I could show Bob and Ernie and Harold and of course I got the whole thing put together and they thought I should make them each one but they could make their own. I didn't because I had used every scrap I had. But that is kind of my education work through going to Pierre and working on ... See the first thing I voted on that was of importance to me was the consolidation of the state retirement system. And I was trying to think of things that were important to me when I was in the Senate. And probably the two most important that you know as long as I live that if you were the prime sponsor of Senate Chart resolution # 1 to ratify the equal rights amendment in 1973. Well I had to take out that big folder the other day and look at all of that stuff and I thought oh my God that's another so there was a folder on the equal rights amendment and we got it passed in both houses in 1973. 23 to about 12 in the Senate and 40 some to 20 some in the house. Then the house actually tried to rescind her actions in 1976 if you can imagine. But they didn't make it. �But it isn't ratified yet. When we kind of quite working 35 states had ratified it and you need 38 and I think that's where it still stands about now. Now the argument is about is it too late to get those last three or was there in Washington legislation was there a time frame. Or do they have to start over. I can't believe that hasn't been ratified can you? Bev: Well politics is a funny business. Grace: But I thought Grace you know. You just forget about things like that you did. That were just my whole life at that time. Cause I've got a folder full of speeches and materials and everybody I contacted in the whole country to get information on the equal rights and the other thing I remember from my work in the Senate was chairing the Senate investigative committee. Now that doesn't tell you anything. Investigative committee. I thought why do we call it the investigative committee. You know what we did. We spent that whole summer because a Judge Adams over in the eastern part of the state had found in a case that he handled that this person had without due process in their rights been committed to Yankton. And if you don't think that I could tell you some stories about a summer of investigating how people put their family members in the state hospital and what really prompted some of us we knew there was one legislator whose wife was there. I don't want to go into that but I've got a whole folder and I've been looking at it. On the investigating committee and I have the laws that we introduced in the next session to change the committal laws for Yankton State Hospital. Now that's important. Bev: Yes it is. It sure is. Grace: I tried to think of you know I thought what they are going to ask me when I go down there. I don't know what in the heck Bev is going to ask me. But in case you ask me what is important, I really worked for a couple days to try and think of things that were really meaningful to me. Bev: Well and I think you forget you have been involved in so many things and you don't always thing about at what point did this change or make a difference. Grace: Or you remember what you are doing now and you forget how important these were in your life. Bev: What led up to the teacher's strike in the '60s? �Grace: It was really teachers’ salaries. Bev: Same as today. Nothing has changed that much. Grace: Nothing has really changed that much and you know I came here in 1961 by that 4200...I don't think the School of Mines was much better. I can't figure out how we even. But then I stop and think sometimes well I also bought the house I still live in for 15 thousand dollars. That will grab you. Not that we can double it back. Kim: You property taxes are probably getting close to that now. Grace: But you have to try to put everything in perspective. But even 4 thousand dollars to teach High school math wasn't much. Maybe there are places where it was worse than that. But I think South Dakota has always been way down. But Ernie's influence on us, because of his work in the credit union and financing and really knowing that the wage was insufficient and I am sure in his work he knew which teacher was coming in to borrow money. I mean I am making that up but as I think back. Why was Ernie, well he better than anybody else in the whole system probably knew the financial condition of every teacher in this system. You know I just figured that out. Bev: That's good that makes a lot of sense. Grace: It's true isn't it? Since you asked me it really was salary. Kim: And Ernie was a leader in the strike. Grace: Right but Ernie was good at putting us three young bucks up to no good. (Laughter) He was another generation and I think when Ernie saw some rambunctious people that were interested in doing something. I know Harold’s interest was salary and they would visit with Ernie and one thing just led to another but those three guys were special friends of mine forever. Harold still checks on me every week to see if I am alive as a result of negotiation. Anyway. �Kim: Was Ernie a teacher and... Grace: Ernie was a biology teacher and he worked in the credit union after school and maybe Saturdays. Bev: I can remember when I was in high school a lot of our teachers took summer jobs you know to make it reach and I know in the early '60's ...well I got married in '57 well we had two children then and I don't remember what we made but it was probably 5-6 thousand dollars a year. Grace: Each or between you? Bev: No, I think between us Grace: See, It makes a difference. Bev: Yeah and the houses. There was one for like 9500.00. That was when track housing started coming in. 9500 was the basic model and the medium one was like 11 thousand and then they had one for like 14 thousand and if you could buy that I mean you were considered pretty snoots. And I had a brother in law that was an over the road truck driver and he was pulling in 10 thousand dollars a year and we thought he was just stinking rich you know. And so it’s just funny how all this changes. I remember when my daughter was born. I was in the hospital with her for three days. It was a breach delivery. The hospital bill was 150 dollars. Grace: Can you believe that? And the Doctor was probably 50.00 Bev: Yeah I think it was. �Grace: Oh my don’t think about it Bev: And they actually gave us like 90 days to pay off the hospital bill and now you can't sneeze for 150 dollars. I am glad I grew up when I did. But you talk to other people that are younger and they have no clue and of course they are not keeping history. You have to go back to read to find out. There are a lot of things I have forgotten about the '60's. Grace: That's why I think my library has just been a Godsend for me for 10 years. And you see I didn't know history. Harold was a coach but a History major and so I would read something what I had decided to research and then... He would know all about it and then he would sit and answer my questions an explain them. It really has kept my sanity. I think in the winter when you are there for weeks on end to have your own library. Cause somebody asked me one day. "Well, where did you find that?" And I said I found it in the South Dakota Guide. "Well where did you get that?" My library. 38:46 Bev: You just never stop learning. Grace: You just never stop learning. But I am going... I am looking at what I wrote here... I will quick go through Kim because I was in the legislature for two terms and I chose not to run but I ran for congress and I ran for congress against my friend Jim Abnor but in a republican state like South Dakota I didn't have a chance. But after the election, in '76, I came home and I called the school because I was on leave, about my job and I wanted my job back at Central High school. But they brought a coach up from the junior high and you know coaches are more important. The male teachers.... but I could teach in any one of the three junior highs but I said I am not interested. And that is when I decided to look. Governor Kneip had asked me to be Secretary of Education and I turned him down because I lived with... this is nasty and I don't mean it to be nasty but I lived with a college professor with a degree and I didn't have a good enough one. So that is when I just packed up my stuff and went over to Laramie for a year and lived in a motel room for a year. '77 to get my PHD. I had gotten my Masters up in Black Hills in the '50's not the '50s because I was on the SCA board because they had a party. That would be the '72. Right I did a lot of things right in the early 70's. But I went over there and it was when I came back you know I decided the one reason I didn't take the job was that I had the proper education and I couldn't be advising college people and other ... that was what bugged me so I was going to get my PHD so that would never be a problem again. And that hasn't been a problem but I haven't used it for anything again. (laughter) But anyway I always tell my kids, education is the one thing no one can take away from you. It's mine. But it was when I came back from Laramie that I decided to go looking for a job so I got the Plum Book and there was and opening in Denver as Deputy Principal A regional official in the department. At that time HEW. It became HHS while I was there. And so I applied for a job under President Carter and I moved to Denver and commuted for three years. You know I commuted. I flew down to Denver Monday morning and �back on Friday afternoon. For three years until Carter was defeated and then I was out. And when I came back I didn't know what I was going to do. But I had met the principle out at Douglas over at Wyoming. We had a class together and when I came back he called me one day. His math teacher had quit and in a week he needed school to start. So then I taught out at Douglas for 10 years until I really retired. Kim: Which principal at Douglas? 42:25 Grace: Woody Jensen. Did you know him? Kim: I didn't. Grace: Woodrow Jensen Kim: I know of the name. I was pretty close friends with the Krutches. George and Patricia Krutch. Grace: Oh right. the Krutches Kim: And of course yeah Milt Kramer is still on our board at Highmark. And Bob Fralick, who just passed away was on the board up until last year. Grace: Well I was like 15 years in Rapid City and 10 years out at Douglas. Kim: Yeah I heard George speak of Woody but I don't believe I ever met him. �Grace: Woodrow Jensen. I was in class with him. Now the last I got a note from him, he's retired but he was teaching up in Montana I think maybe Billings. But after I retired completely from teaching then you know what I did, I ran for city council. Bev: Talk about that a little bit. Grace: God no. (laughter) I don't know what possessed me because I guess I was probably mad about something. Bev: Who was mayor at the time? Grace: McLaughlin. I fought with him too because he was on the board of the state retirement system and I didn't like the shenanigans that were going on to pick up some ______ for him. So I told him so. Anyway I was on the planning commission and then the council. And then I didn't like always being voted down so I ran for Mayor. Bev: Oh you did. I didn't know that. Grace: I was going to bring you one of my brochures. And I got beat. 44:24 I got beat by Jim Shaw. You know he was hard to run against because he had been on radio and his name was so familiar. But the two things of interest from that I chaired the city/county drinking water protection committee. To try to bring septic systems in the county up to.... We got the resolution passed for the city within city limits and restrictions. But I'll be damned when I got down to county commissioners meetings. What do you do if Ken Davis is sitting there on the commission and he's got two septic systems in his property up at Johnson siding and he didn't want any regulations on them? So I got mad and quit that too. Beside the drinking water committee my other interest was the library. Greta came during that time but I thought Laura Neuharth, Laura Hovey, Neubert. Was that her maiden name? Kim: Yeah I don't know. They just hired her for the Foundation. I worked with her a little bit. �Grace: For the Foundation. She left me a brochure. And I read them all and I thought well son of a bitch excuse me but I was reading right here. In 1998 Greta Chapman was appointed library director. In 1999 get this are you listening, a contract was signed with Pennington County bringing Rapid City Public Library services to Pennington County residents and I thought in 1997 I chaired AUW's public policy committee and Cheryl Kandaris and Cathy Johnson Norma Kramer were on my committee. They sat over at my house and we heard the complaints about the people in the county that wanted library services. The three of us circulated the petitions to get that on the ballot. And it was passed that fall. And I thought I wonder if they even realize how they were able to sign a contract for services with the county. Did they even know how that contract came to be? There's not a word in there. And why should there be. We were really a committee of AUW. Public Policy Committee. So out in the garage there is a whole folder with those.... that was really important. So recently didn't I read in the paper the county is kind of reneging? Bev: Yeah they are having a lot of problems. Grace: Well by damn I thought I ought to go out in the garage and dig out that folder and go out and remind them that the people voted on that. In 1997 or 8 Bev: I didn't think it was that long ago but I remember that if you weren't in the county and you wanted to use the library services here it wasn't affordable. It was terrible. Grace: That's right. But here it says she signed a contract and I looked right in between there. Well how do you think that contract came to be? You know what I mean? But they don't know. That's history they don't even know. And the history is so important because after we got the whole thing set up in the end of Oct. John and I left and met our daughter and her husband and went on a heart of Europe tour. So we absentee voted before we went. But the gall sent me a telegram after the election. I gave them the hotel address where I would be that night and I got word over in Austria that it had passed. Is that fun?! Is that fun? It's almost unbelievable isn't it? That you could have that much fun. The people at the hotel were all confused. How could this lady be getting this kind of telegram. You know, the gals sent it to me. That's my story and there's not a thing in here. I don't know. Can I go home? Bev: I want to digress just a minute �Kim: Sounds like Bev's not going to let you go home yet. Bev: This is off the track of what we were talking about but I am very curious. What was your husbands take on Custer? How did he feel about him? Did he think he was a good guy or a lunatic or what? What was his thinking? Grace: If I told you what I thought he thought I would be ________ because he read his books and I read mine and we didn't really discuss but just off the top of my head I think he thought I was kind of foolish some times. 49:48 49:48 And that’s just a far away because I have no reason for saying that but he did read. Bev: Well I am just wondering because I learned a lot about him at Ft. Meade. And I have been reading a lot about him. Grace: Didn't they think he was kind of foolish? Bev: Well, It depends on who you talk to. They weren't enamored of him. Well some were some weren't. He had so many enemies that I think were more jealous than anything else. And had their own. In fact I was just reading there is a new book out and I've got it at home. I checked it out at this library so I better bring it back but if you get a chance to read it, it's kind of fun. It's Bill O'Reilly and I forget the authors name now put out this book on. It's supposed to be true tales of the old west and they’re supposed to be setting history straight on a lot of things. And it is so full of mistakes that you can't believe it. And I'm really tempted to write them letters. There's a chapter on Wild Bill. They had him killed at Nutter and Man saloon well it was Null and Mans. They had the names wrong except... and then he did some really shall research on Custer. But I found that my interest in history and I love a good story and I guess that's why I kinda get into some of these things but people pick their heroes like they do baseball teams. And they can't really tell you why. Grace: For various reasons. �Bev: Yeah they either like the color of the uniforms or they like who the coach was and it doesn't matter what facts you can throw at them they are not going to change their mind because that is who they are for or against you know. But I've got my own thoughts and I thought someday it might be fun to write something from a woman’s perspective because I first of .... Grace: And you know I've got 4 full shelves of Custer. Bev: My thought it 1. He had attention deficit disorder which they didn't know what it was back in those days. But he was very hyper and had all this energy. And then they talked about him and political ambitions and I know we hate politicians and one of the things that was in this Bill O'Reilly book was you know when he went to the Little Big Horn just before that he had been to Grant and had been on this Committee because they had this Indian ring in N.D. And he needed to testify. Well it turned out the head of the Indian Ring was Grant's brother. And so Custer told us like it was and of course that was not popular and so Grant says you’re not going with your men, you're going to stay behind it's your punishment. And he said these are my guys I've got to go. So what a lot of people don't know is that when he was on his way he finally relented and let him go but he was not in charge and so he accompanied the men but he couldn't you know and I've got to find it again because I have a copy of the Deserette News, Salt Lake City from 1877. There was an interview with Reno. After the talking about the Little Big Horn, Custer in general and so forth and he said that every once in a while he couldn't stand it because he felt like he needed to be taking care of his men and he couldn't do it so every once in a while he would just go what they call war whooping and he would just go tearing off somewhere and you know just run off some of the energy. But just several things that I came up with, with him. And I thought well yeah this is I am sure what he was about he had ADD and probably a few other things. Grace: Well I don't think you are going to convince me. Bev: Well I don't know. Grace: (inaudible) Had some pretty neat books. Bev: Yeah I bet you do. �Grace: I have some pretty neat rare books on that stuff. But I was never interested in it but John just read. But other people ask me things about John that they tell me that he told them. But you know after his experiences behind the lines and then 36 months. When we started going together. I thought I got to get out of this arrangement. You know he relived that whole experience. And I thought I can't stand to listen to any more of this. You know and all of the sudden after two or three months. When it was all out of his system he never ever brought it up again so in my family room I have three shelves that are Johns and they were all about different wars and he would read those like Let them Eat Stones and They Fought Alone and he's got some autographed ones there from people. Well that was one of the first things I did after John died I thought what do I do with those three messy shelves. And I thought well Grace you don't know a thing about any of those wars. So I took them out and put them on the floor in the family room and I sorted them by war. And I thought that's how I got questioning my friend Harold. I didn't know this happened in this war. And then he would tell me. Well the whole top shelf is about the war in the Philippines but then I put the other wars in order and that winter I read 31 of them. I made sure I read 11 books out of that top shelf and I thought boy I'm glad I didn't know this before.. I am glad he didn't talk about these atrocities that happened but once he told me the whole thing and got it off his chest his but he would read and I'm sure and the reason that I am so (inaudible) probably what started me deciding I ought to know something about every war we have been in and I couldn't find anything about the Vietnam war. I thought but then I read the introduction to The Best and Brightest and it covered the Vietnam War. I guess I decided that I wanted to understand that part of history but the whole top shelf is about the war in the Philippines. And I read 11 of them. I read enough that I thought I understood what he had been through and I was glad that once he got it off his chest we didn't spend the rest of 56 married years re-living the war. And all I can figure out is I just got the (inaudible) so he got it off his chest. Bev: So many of them just couldn't talk about it. And I've talked to several who’s (inaudible) so he got it off his chest. Bev: So many of them just couldn't talk about it. And I've talked to several young men that their Dad's had been in the war and they couldn't reach them emotionally. Grace: And I know I remember what slipped my mind. Three weeks before he died we have a pass through window from the kitchen to the family room that we added on. And he was sitting in his chair out there three weeks before he died and all the sudden I heard him get up out of that chair. And he said I got to go up on that hill and rescue my partner. And I thought oh my god he is 83 years old and he's still living the war. I couldn't believe it. I just thought Oh my God he is sitting there dying and he is still re-living the war. �Bev: I have a friend in Keystone whose husband was in the Philippines. He was over in the jungles anyway and he is 86 or 87 and he still wakes up swinging at night. Grace: And after John died my son asked me. This is really personal but we're talking about it. He said Mother, Did Dad really throw you out of bed twice? I didn't think anybody knew that but me. That was once at the University of Iowa. The first year we were married and he was having some kind of a flash back. My God the next thing I knew I was on the floor. But I never told my kids or never told anybody. But after he died he had actually told his son that. I guess it bothered him. Well I think I was pretty understanding from day one 58:52 Cause Dr. ______ was the one that gave me a clue of what I was getting into when he found out we were engaged why he told me that the doctors at the hospital didn't know whether he would make it or not make it. Bev: Yeah I don't think we can have an idea the tortures. Especially the mind torture that people go through if you are not accustomed to war and killing and seeing people. Grace: And why are we sending all these young kids over there to get their legs blown off and stuff like that. I have no idea Bev: Wars are profitable. Grace: But that's right. Eisenhower said Bev: The industrial military power Grace: Anyhow I don't know what you guys are up to. What are you doing this for? What are you going to do with this junk? Kim: We are going to put it where people can find it. �Grace: Well how do you know they want to know it? Kim: I don't. But I know if we don't capture it, they can't know it. Grace: Boy there is so much the kids don't know isn't there? ` Bev: Yeah and they are talking history all the time and it does tend to repeat itself. It's just I think well which is why we started the history conference too is we just knew not everybody was not going to write a book about their life and they had stories and if we didn't get it somehow it would be lost and thats why we did the books. Grace: Cause I love going to history conference and I love reading but I just have never but I just never had a ____ of eyes to write anything down. I keep worrying about the history conference. In All the years I love to go and hear everybody else’s papers but I just... I can put notebooks together. Bev: You certainly have a lot to talk about. Grace: I can put notebooks together and I amaze myself and even sit there yesterday and today and think oh my gosh we did all this stuff Bev: Well you did 50 years in education and that's a half century. And if you look at, you talk about what was pushing the strike to happen and what is going on today that part hasn't changed much. You know education has but the things that we are teaching, the way that we are teaching. I ______ they don't teach writing anymore Grace: Actually in addition to education, the opportunities I had on the Constitutional Revision Commission learning from guys like Wally McCullen you know. �Bev: That would be a good paper. Grace: So between I keep thinking but why am I talking about what we did in education but then 30-40 years in politics alongside education but actually when I look way back I think what learned in toastmistress clubs about conducting meetings and organizing. That's what my friends say. Grace you organize everything. Well they don't organize anything. You know. But I think I learned some of those things in the parliamentary. I wouldn't have become a parliamentarian. So I just cringe when I go to meetings but I try to keep my mouth shut. Bev: It all has a plan Grace: Anyway, but in all the time you talk because I don't know what you are interested in but I keep thinking I also raised 4 children and that's pretty important. Bev: It is and I think that the observations Bev: It is and I think that the observations I think that you may have had raising them over the years. What it was like then compared to today society today is a lot different that it was back then. Expectations were a lot different. All those things are history. So you know Ernie. I just got to meet him once very late in his life. Grace: Yeah Ernie.... Kim: I had no idea. Grace: I went to his funeral. And that's why I left Highmark. It took me a minute. Cause I thought there must have been a reason I left. Kim: I definitely want to go back into our archives. �Grace: Look and see when my account disappeared and you will get an idea of the year. Isn't that funny. Now what are you over there? Kim: I am the board chair. The chairman of the Board of Directors. Grace: Why are you there? What's your work? Your profession? Kim: At Highmark? Oh, My profession I'm.. that's a complicated question . Grace: How'd you get on the board over there? Is it a wrong question? No Kim: No, not at all wrong. No, No. I retired from the air force in 1991. Grace: Ok I retired from teaching. Kim: and I started teaching for Black Hills State and that got a little... I taught business classes. Writing and Human Resource Management primarily. I talk a little bit of accounting. I got a little bit bored with teaching. I got tired of seeing all these students come in, brand new and fresh and graduate with their new bachelor’s degree and more came in and graduated with their new bachelor’s degree and I was still there doing the same thing so I quit teaching and went out to work. I had an opportunity in the telecommunications industry to help build up the network that we have now that supports all the internet that goes all over the country. Grace: What company did you go to work for? Kim: It was a company out of Bozeman Montana. �Grace: Out of Bozeman Kim: I kept my home here but I traveled all over the US building the fiber optic network Grace: Where did you earn the wherewithal to do that work? Kim: In my air force career, I learned some of the construction Management and technical skills needed. And when I got tired of traveling doing that and at the time of the turn of the century when the telecommunications and technology bubble bust occurred. I volunteered to quit going out so much and I stayed around Rapid City and I did some underground utility work to keep myself busy for a while. Because I learned that in the telecommunications business I did. Then I took a job as a program Development director at Western Dakota Tech and created several of the new programs out there and ended up as the assistant president until Governor Daugaard did the across the board %10 cut and I've always been a strong believer that if she cut 10% it’s got to come 10% from this segment and 10% from that segment and I was the 10% from the executive staff that got cut. Since then I've just kind of been drifting. Doing things I enjoy. Grace: But as a member of Highmark you decided on your own to run for office. Kim: When I was approached and I do have expertise in Human Resource management and I do some consulting in that as it’s available and the Board likes to maintain... we have some people that have expertise in accounting... Grace: But as President of the Board right? Is that a full-time job? Kim: It's a volunteer postition and I probably put in 10-20 hours a month maybe. Sometimes more like 40-50 hours a month. �Grace: Right I can believe that cause I looked and watch and see who runs with the board of directors at Black Hills Credit Union because I know most of them. You know. And when I go down to city hall it’s frightening because you know the head of the water dept. I taught Algebra. Jerry Wright who just... Well I had Jerry in my Algebra class and then John had him and my Dr. Dr. Zintars son I had him and if I go up to the other clinic oh gosh every place you go. I can't believe it. The number of students that I have had. Kim: I was at a reception at Cheryl Chapman’s house last night. Grace: Ok, yeah, really? Kim: And I am also on the Board of Directors for Historic Rapid City which is my connection to the Oral History Program. And we are also working on the McGillicuddy House ��� Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Grace Mickelson transcript Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interviews Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Rapid City Public Library Description An account of the resource Oral Histories recorded for the Rapid City Oral History Project by Rapid City Public Library Oral History A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge. Interviewee The person(s) being interviewed Grace Mickelson Interviewer The person(s) performing the interview Bev Pechan and Kim Morey Duration Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.) 1:08:45 Location The location of the interview Rapid City Dublin Core The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/. Title A name given to the resource Interview: Grace Mickelson Date A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource 2015-07-09 Subject The topic of the resource Black Hills State University, Book Collecting, City Council, Education, General George Armstrong Custer, Local History, Politics, Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder, Rapid City, Rapid City Education Association, Rapid City Journal, Rapid City Public Library, Rapid City Teacher's Strike, SDEA (South Dakota Education Association), Senator, South Dakota Legislature, Stratobowl, Toastmasters International Rights Information about rights held in and over the resource NO WAIVER on file Description An account of the resource Grace Mickelson spent several decades in politics and education in SD along with raising 4 children. She credits Toastmasters International with some of her public success and organizational skills as president of the SDEA and a Senator. She takes great pride also in her personal library containing around 2500 items. Identifier An unambiguous reference to the resource within a given context https://catalog.rapidcitylibrary.org/cgi-bin/koha/opac-detail.pl?biblionumber=290139 Type The nature or genre of the resource Sound Publisher An entity responsible for making the resource available Rapid City Public Library Language A language of the resource en Coverage The spatial or temporal topic of the resource, the spatial applicability of the resource, or the jurisdiction under which the resource is relevant Rapid City, (S.D.) Creator An entity primarily responsible for making the resource Rapid City Oral History Project Contributor An entity responsible for making contributions to the resource Rapid City Public Library Historic Rapid City Black Hills State University Book Collecting City Council Education General George Armstrong Custer Local History Politics Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder Rapid City Rapid City Education Association Rapid City Journal Rapid City Public Library Rapid City Teachers' Strike SDEA South Dakota Education Associati South Dakota Legislature Stratobowl Toastmasters International